[magprob]

No, really, I sat and watched TV while gourging on Spam finger sandwiches with the crust cut off. I deserve to die. I even drank real Coke, not diet. Please, kill me.

[Wondergirl]

No, really, I sat and watched TV while gourging on Spam finger sandwiches with the crust cut off. I deserve to die. I even drank real Coke, not diet. Please, kill me.

Wonder white bread or 7-grain?

[magprob]

Like a true slut, any bread that was handy at the time. I cannot even begin to expose my sin with all of those Oreo cookies. I just cannot relive it. It was an abomination against nature.

[Wondergirl]

Each of us can tell a similar story of gluttony or avarice or sloth. You, magprob, are the gilded mirror that each of us must hold up in front of our faces, to wit, to expose our sin and to name the ways in which we have brought suffering not only to ourselves but also to the world.

[magprob]

Yea. Kind of like Buddha, but with heart burn.

[Wondergirl]

Yea. Kinda like Buddah, but with heart burn.

So with sin and suffering come Pepto-Bismol?

[magprob]

Sometimes Pepto. Most of the time a good ethnic cleansing does the trick. You know, like with mexican food, only ice cream will do.

[talaniman]

Share your pain, and be free from it!!

[inthebox]

Christian explanations of suffering:

1. Prophets say suffering is a punishment for sin.

Which passages?

2. Book of Job-Two answers

A. Suffering is a test and will be rewarded later for passing the test.
B. Suffering is beyond comprehension.

From Job 38 to 42, the Lord does not answer Job's question directly but reminds him of His omnipotence. Note that He states job's friends were wrong - suffering in this life is not necessarily a tit for tat scenario.


As to why?

2 Corinthians 1

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. 5For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows.

James 1:

2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

1peter 1:

6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

Romans 5:

1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

g&p

[artlady]

I see suffering as growth so I guess in that aspect it has value and if something has value maybe it has spiritual value.

If it makes you grow and you flourish through the suffering I guess that is spiritual.

I have more questions than answers Choux when it comes to the divine.

I believe we are tested and I believe we answer the call or not.

I just try to be as decent as I can(most of the time) and give when I can and hope that what I give is passed on and it goes full circle.

Many holiday blessings to you my friend!!

[Maggie 3]

Suffering started in the garden of Eden when Eve disobeyed God
And let satan deceived her. From then on man did his own thing and we pay for it
In suffering. Satan or the devil delights in hurting man and trying to turn man away from God. Often people blame God when they suffer but it is not Gods fault. Satan loves to see
God get credit for his misdeeds. Mans rebellion against God and the evil in man's heart
Has caused much suffering. But God has given man a free will and the freedom either
To love and obey Him or to rebel against Him. God has set up certain natural laws to govern the universe like the law of gravity but people can suffer from this if they don't
Keep the law. We have not learned to cast all our cares upon God, as He has told us
To do so we have let our worried and harried minds make us sick and that is about 80
Percent of us. We want to take a Pill to make things better and go on doing the same thing the same way the wrong way. The consequence of a free life style that brings about AIDS, HERPES, SYPHILIS and GONORRHEA brings suffering. As long as we live in this
Carnal body satan will tempt us though what feels good, taste good, looks good and
Smells good and we will suffer the consequences. Satan came to steal, kill and destroy us but Jesus came that they might have life, and that they might have it more
Abundantly. God will intervene for those who diligently seek Him. Thousands of people,
Plus me, have testified that God will intervene to relieve pain and suffering. This does
Depend on the closeness and the intimacy you have with God. This is why Jesus came
To show us the way the truth and the life we must live. He died on the cross to forgive
Us of all our sins and to send the Holy Spirit, that is a part of HIm, that will lead us to
All truth. The key is and Jesus said "ASK, AND IT WILL BE GIVEN TO YOU; SEEK, AND YOU WILL FIND; KNOCK AND IT WILL OPEN TO YOU. FOR EVERONE WHO KNOCKS IT WILL BE OPENED" Don't give up keep on asking, seeking and knocking and believing.
He is faithful and good and loves you very mush, He will never leave you nor forsake
You. Your life dependeds upon every word God has given us, so listening and get every
Word, letting it sink into your mind . Gods Word is Power. We can overcome suffering
By His Stripes We were Healed and By The Blood We Were Cleansed!

Maggie 3

[Choux]

Sorry, I'm very disappointed with the Board menbers lack of understanding of the Bible.

The Bible explains human suffering as:

1. The prophets say it is punishment for disobeying God.

2.Book of Job. Two explanations. 1. God sending tests upon the individual. 2. Suffering is not explainable

3. Ecc. Suffering is the nature of things.

4. Apocalyptic texts. God will make right what is wrong... eventually.

Closing this question due to lack of intelligent, thoughtful answers.

Bye.

[Wondergirl]

Choux disagrees: That's not what the Bible says... I asked the question.

Read your Bible. This time, wear your glasses. :)

[Choux]

I was referring to your *off topic* statement::

YOur "The question is not why there is suffering, but what is gained from suffering, i.e., considering St. John of the Cross and his "dark night of the soul," turning suffering around to benefit others, understanding the gift of suffering."

Ask your own questions if you want to talk about that!! :D

MY QUESTION related to the **Bible's explanations** of human suffering and how human suffering is explained in the BIBLE.

Incidentally, you know that the JEws TOTALL REJECT the idea of Original Sin being deduced from their scriptures, don't you. They reject the idea catagorically.

Closed Question due to poor comprehension on the part of the folks who answered. :)

[Wondergirl]

Closed Question due to poor comprehension on the part of the folks who answered.

You can't close this question. It is still being discussed with very thoughtful and thought-provoking responses. Valuable contributions are being made. :)

[magprob]

Why do they reject it? Or do you not know?

[Wondergirl]

Why do they reject it? Or do you not know?

From sullivan-county.com --

Judaism is emphatic that a person is born innocent - not evil, not good either, but innocent. Jews believe that man enters the world free of sin, with a soul that is pure and innocent and untainted. We are given a clean slate. But we are not born into an innocent world. The world we are born into is one of challenge, difficulty, pain and evil. But all these are merely means to an end: it is through facing challenges that we grow as human beings, through going through difficulty we bring out deeper resources from within, through pain we become stronger and by combatting evil we create a world of good. In the beginning Adam and Eve were pure beings who entered a perfect world. There was no pain, death, etc. in their world. The "knowledge of good and evil" was a tree that they were told to stay away from in order to maintain this perfect world. "On the day you eat from the tree you will become mortal" (Not just die as the KJV says.)

God is gave us a choice to either remain perfect in a perfect (spiritual) world, or we can ingest the knowledge of good and evil and become imperfect, mortal. God created us with a purpose. But what purpose could there be in remaining perfect? Why be just another animal ina zoo? Mortality was isn't punishment, but only natural consequence

To quote, "So too the other "curses" - pain in childbirth and difficulty in making a living are the natural consequences of Eve's choice, because from now on, all achievement has to be earned, which means that nothing can be "born" without hardship. As descendants of Adam and Eve we have inherited this path - the path of facing challenges, fighting evil and trying to bring the world back to its previous perfection."

To summarise:
1) The "sin" of Adam and Eve was in fact a conscious choice, a necessary step in the development of humanity's purpose. It was the introduciton of imperfection into creation - something only humans can do.
2) We are not born evil, but we are born in a world of apparent evil and hidden goodness. Our mission is to reveal that goodness.

[magprob]

All that for eating an apple? I'm going to have a banana.

[Wondergirl]

All that for eating an apple? I'm gonna have a banana.

Be careful. It wasn't an apple; it was a banana.

[magprob]

Do you have a banana in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

Dat ain't no banana, dats my nose!