[JoeT777]

"The view that sex was an evil was prevalent in Augustine's time. Plotinus, a neo-Platonist that Augustine praises in his Confessions,[39] taught that only through disdain for fleshly desire could one reach the ultimate state of mankind.[40] Augustine, likewise, had served as a "Hearer" for the Manicheans for about nine years,[41] and they also taught that the original sin was carnal knowledge.[42]

In his pre-Pelagian writings, Augustine taught that *Original Sin was transmitted by concupiscence* (roughly, lust), making humanity a massa damnata (mass of perdition, condemned crowd) and much enfeebling, though not destroying, the freedom of the will. In the struggle against Pelagianism, the principles of Augustine's teaching were confirmed by many councils, especially the Second Council of Orange (529). Anselm of Canterbury established the definition that was followed by the great Schoolmen, namely that Original Sin is the "privation of the righteousness which every man ought to possess", thus separating it from concupiscence, with which Augustine's disciples had often defined it, as later did Luther and Calvin, who instead of seeing concupiscence, like Augustine, as a vehicle of transmission of Original Sin actually equated the two, a doctrine condemned in 1567 by Pope Pius V.[31]

Augustine's formulation of the doctrine of original sin has substantially influenced both Catholic and Reformed (that is, Calvinist) theology. His understanding of sin and grace was developed against that of Pelagius.[43] Expositions on the topics are found in his works On Original Sin, On the Predestination of the Saints, On the Gift of Perseverance and On Nature and Grace."
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So, read his pre-Pelagian writings to see that he believed Original Sin was transferred to the next generation by male ejaculation. Should be interesting!!

If the implication here is that sex between married couples is somehow evil, a misconception has been made. Augustine doesn’t say how original sin is transmitted from generation to generation in all of Pelagians, but does identify its source as beginning with the Adam and Eve’s original sin.The quoted material from Wiki doesn’t address this issue of the generation of original sin,

In Book I of Two Letters of Pelagians, Augustine refutes heretical views of the pelagians. One of those views was that intercourse of married people was evil and devised by the devil. As a consequence the newborn were born of the devil and full of sin as a result of this diabolical intercourse. He’s response is consistent with the concept of original sin.

“Nay, as I say that marriage was appointed by God for the sake of the ordinance of the begetting of children, so I say that the propagation of children to be begotten could not have taken place without sexual impulse, and without intercourse of husband and wife, even in Paradise, if children were begotten there”. Chapter 10, V

And he continues… “Since, therefore, I neither say that this intercourse of husband and wife is diabolical, especially in the case of believers, which is effected for the sake of generating children who are afterwards to be regenerated; nor that any men are made by the devil, but, in so far as they are men, by God; and nevertheless that even of believing husband and wife are born guilty persons (as if a wild olive were produced from an olive), on account of original sin, and on this account they are under the devil unless they are born again [baptized] in Christ...” Chapter 11, VI

“The Roman Catholic Church considers Augustine's teaching to be consistent with free will.[44] He often said that any can be saved if they wish.[44] While God knows who will be saved and who will not, with no possibility that one destined to be lost will be saved, this knowledge represents God's perfect knowledge of how humans will freely choose their destinies.[44] “ (Ibid)

JoeT

[Galveston1]

1 Cor 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(KJV)

The reason that Adam died was because of his sin, and if we all died "in Adam", that amounts to original sin.

As to the reasons for suffering, it has already been stated that the reasons can be as numerous as people are.

I believe that the reasons Christians suffer even when they are not living a sinful life style are at least two.

1. As representatives of Christ in this world, the world system hates Christians.

John 17:18
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
(KJV)

2. Christians are being prepared to rule on earth with Christ, and suffering is part of the training for various positions in His government.

Probably not many will agree with my #2, but it is my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

[Wondergirl]

No, the old testament says that God punishes, by expulsion from paradise, Adam and Eve for *disobeying* one of God's rules.

It was the ONLY rule God had made, not "one of his rules."

According to the story in Genesis, God punished Adam and Eve with pain and suffering (3:19) and mercifully expelled them from the Garden ("Paradise") in order to prevent them from continuing to eat from the Tree of Life (3:22).

[Wondergirl]

So, back to my question, "Why Must We Suffer?"

Why shouldn't we?

:)Tra la la. How can we appreciate the sunshine if there is no rain? Tra la la.:)

[Choux]

Hello, please note my question, folks, which is an accurate description of **the reasons the ***Bible*** says we must suffer**.

Stay on subject! NO off subject nit picking!!

[arcura]

So if it is Traditional (big T)
It is still properly taught.
Fred

[Choux]

Please, only people who understand the question... thanks. Original Sin is not Biblical.

Thanks.

[Akoue]

If I have to limit myself to one of the Biblical answers you adumbrate in the OP, then I'd have to go with incomprehensibility, either that or it's the nature of things (after the nature of things was broken with the Fall). Personally, original sin makes some sense with regard to human suffering (we're broken), though neither it nor the Bible give me any peace with respect to the suffering of animals (which are without sin).

[Wondergirl]

Hello, please note my question, folks, which is an accurate description of **the reasons the ***Bible*** says we must suffer**.

The Bible does NOT say we ****must**** suffer.

[Choux]

No nitpickers. If you understand the question please answer! Others desist!

**Christian *explanations* of suffering**:

1. Prophets say suffering is a punishment for sin.

2. Book of Job-Two answers

A. Suffering is a test and will be rewarded later for passing the test.
B. Suffering is beyond comprehension.

3. Ecclesiastes says suffering is the nature of things, and we must accept it.

4. In the apocalyptic tests in the Old and New Testaments-God will eventually make right what is wrong with the world.

These various explanations of why people must suffer illustrates that the Bible is not a single-minded text, but instead an amalgamation of various ideas.

As Christians, how do you deal with suffering in your life? Do these Biblical teachings listed above influence your approach to suffering?

[arcura]

I deal with my suffering by accepting it as best I can and by offering it up for the forgiveness of sins.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[magprob]

We suffer because evil rules our planet and we must learn to overcome it.

[Wondergirl]

Genesis 3 explains with the Adam and Eve story the beginning of sin and the reason for suffering, that man brought it upon himself by disobeying God. The question is not why there is suffering, but what is gained from suffering, i.e. considering St. John of the Cross and his "dark night of the soul," turning suffering around to benefit others, understanding the gift of suffering.

[arcura]

Wondergirl,
I agree.
Merry Christmas,
Fred

[arcura]

Magbrob,
I also agree with you.
Merry Christmas,
Fred

[De Maria]

We suffer because evil rules our planet and we must learn to overcome it.

I would have to disagree. Love rules our planet. Unfortunately, evil has a strong foothold. But God is still in charge.

[magprob]

Our wold economy is collapsing because the money changers have infiltrated every government of the world. They are stealing huge tracks of land with the help of their puppet thugs, sending the people walking to nowhere. We are being poisoned by air and by land. Giant, greedy corporations control the government with billions of dollars stifling human creativity and stealing the little guys inventions. All the while, churches preach their doctrine.
Love may be in your heart and the hearts of many but they are working on a plan to steal even that. The scales have tipped to the evil side on this planet. The god of this world is satan.

[Wondergirl]

Our wold economy is collapsing because the money changers have infiltrated every government of the world. They are stealing huge tracks of land with the help of their puppet thugs, sending the people walking to nowhere. We are being poisoned by air and by land. Giant, greedy corporations control the government with billions of dollars stifling human creativity and stealing the little guys inventions. All the while, churches preach their doctrine.
Love may be in your heart and the hearts of many but they are working on a plan to steal even that. The scales have tipped to the evil side on this planet. The god of this world is satan.

And who is to blame? As Pogo said, "The enemy is us." Naming the devil as the culprit is our way of avoiding responsibility. "The devil made me do it." Yeah, right.

[magprob]

We are to blame. We got too fat and stupid to from watching TV. I admit it. So kill me.

[Wondergirl]

We are to blame. We got too fat and stupid to from watchin TV. I admit it. So kill me.

Naw. It's the Spam.