[JoeCanada76]

So what do you think should be done to fix the problem. Capital punishment? Televised. Would that change the behaviour. Or is it better to put more investment into social programs for people and their families who are struggling to make it financially in this world and maybe they will not fall in that trap.

[talaniman]

Now, that's a thought

[Starman]

I assume this refers to the USA?

I ask this, what about abortion? Or same sex marriage? Some states are in favour of that, and legalize that in the USA, but wouldn't that be “against god” as well?

For the record, I support all 3. Just trying to point out that perhaps it is not so much of a slippery slope.

If we say we trust we are either sincere or insincere.
There is no middle ground. Much better would be not to say anything at all.

Deuteronomy 23:23
That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

[talaniman]

If we say we trust we are either sincere or insincere.
There is no middle ground. Much better would be not to say anything at all.

Deuteronomy 23:23
That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

Do not confuse the government line with individual opinion.One may not have anything to do with the other.

[JoeCanada76]

Huh? Please explain better starman?

[Starman]

Do not confuse the government line with individual opinion.One may not have anything to do with the other.

If the words are meaningless or irrelevant in terms of government policy which addresses public morality, why not respectfully delete them? Otherwise they come across as mockingly hypocritical. We consider persons, organizations, or nations who purport to follow other religious books untrustworthy hypocrites if they ignore the very words they prominently display or claim to adhere to. Why should we be any different? First we must remove the straw from our own eyes before we can qualify to criticize others be they either individuals o organizations, or nations who are religiously inconsistent in their public policies by encouraging activities which the god, gods, or God they officially claim to trust condemns.

Huh? Please explain better starman?

Why write a statement of that kind which is irrelevant to government policy?
Why risk the impression of being considered a nation of hypocrites? No I am not confusing public opinion with government policies or vis versa. I am simply saying that if the words are not to be taken seriously in reference to the moral issues that the God we claim to trust condemns then it's better not to place them prominently where they can be viewed as nothing more than an irrelevant utterance or a national twitch of sorts.

BTW
Nations are composed of individuals who either protest what they see or happily go right along with it. I don't see anyone taking umbrage with the inconsistency-do you?

[wizzkid89]

Starman is right in one regard, we should delete whatever he thinks we need to delete(not quite sure what exactly you were referring to, but I gather it is something to do with some kind of religious text that somehow correlates to our government in some way or another). The separation of church and state is what need to be upheld, and is mostly the reason that legal cases get cloudy, because people bring up their religious believes in the judicial system and that shouldn't be allowed. If you live in this country than you accept the laws placed upon you and you should abide by them unless they somehow corrupt one of the admendments or free rights, you should not protest if they go against your religious belief, because after all it is your belief and therefore should not be heard in a court of law. I am referring also to the scopes-monkey trial, and other religious proceedings that have taken place over the years, samesex issues, because I honestly think that religion has no place in politics. But because religion is very important to people it will never go away and I understand that. I just wish it would. In the case of prostitution, again, legalizing it would not solve our problem, the bounds of prostituion will not stick to some red-light district in your downtown area, it will spread and again there will be a problem. I don't understand why everyone thinks it would be a good idea to legalize it. Again my example and it has been this entire time is LAS VEGAS. Honestly it is no place for families, it is even more no place for children. Supposedly parents have ENOUGH problems with the crap on MTV. Well MTV IS A FREAKING BARNEY COMPARED TO LAS VEGAS. And I am not talking about they bad places, they get worse, I am talking just walking the strip and seeing all the **** that goes on. You would have to be practically retarded to wish that upon your town. Legalizing prostitution will NOT work, it definitely will NOT stick to some part of town, and unless I can get an example of an American city where it is legalized and stayed in it's separate but equal corner I will refuse the idea of legalization of prostitution. In preidustrial communities prostitution or the exchange of wives is common, and with industrial communities prostitution hasn't always been illegal it was big during the 16th century, and their were licensed brothels, it then followed a decline were it became illegal because of the protestants and roman catholics, also because an outbreak of syphilis. As for prostitution in America it hasn't always been illegal either, before 1910 their was a white slave trade going on, where women were taken across the borders for immoral uses. All this stopped once the white slave trade act of 1910 banned it. I Agree that maybe this approach hasn't been working for too long, but definitely not thousands of years, it is time for a new approach but what I am not so certain.

[talaniman]

wizzkid89/Starman-Prostitution is already in every city in America and the white slave trade still goes on to this day all over the world and yes its been with man since recorded history a couple of thousands of years Legalization would keep it in certain places and even force prostitutes to get health check ups. Taxing it would take a lot of the criminal element out of it and raise money for other things. I agree that religion should not be mixed with politics so the religious solution (JAIL) which hasn't worked ever, is not the solution either. And as this thread has shown there is a tremendous market for sex, and drugs. I am like you though, what the solution is I am a little uncertain. I just think legalisation would take it from criminals and put it in more reasonable hands where at least people would stop dying for it and maybe get help if they need it. Maybe a better way to spread the wealth in this country would go along way in keeping people off the streets and out of the quick fast money that can be made off human misery.

[wizzkid89]

It is in every city, I never said it wasn't, but the legalization of it would make take it from the background to the forefront of the city, it would no longer be hidden underground but opened wide up for everyone to see and if you think that won't happen then you are crazy. I also never said that it hasn't been around for years, I just said that legality of it has been something that gone off and on throughout history. I also said in my earlier posts that it would be a boost to the economy BUT AT WHAT PRICE? For YOUR kids to be subject to material that not only should they not see but won't understand for years to come? Is that a price YOU are willing to pay? To have a city littered with porn? The legalization of it will only open up the floodgates for the issues of legalizing gambling and drugs. There once was a time this went on in the forefront of every community, and they put a stop to it, or at least made it disappear and go underground. There was a reason. That reason believe it or not still exists whether people choose to remember it. I do agree however that giving help to people who would become streetwalkers would benefit a lot more than jailing them. And hopefully there would be a way to provide that help to them.

[talaniman]

With legalization comes regulation and all due respect its already out there for everyone to see. Out of site out of mind? Sounds like don't ask don't tell. Regulation would put it under control of zoning ordinaces with oversite at least. I think your scenario of it popping up everywhere is an over statement.

[wizzkid89]

Look you support me with towns and what not and I will believe you. I have been to chicago, seattle, New York, l.a. I live near san fran, I have been to most large cities and a lot more handfuls and I haven't seen what you say is there. And honestly have you tally been to las vegas it's just an honest question, because if you haven't you will not know. It is not an overstatement, but rather very logical. We have cities that legalize such things, and the largest of which is what I am accurately describing. And it is shortsighted to think that it wouldn't happen anywhere else if the same legalization is followed. I honestly would love to have this discussion, with people who have seen it in reality. No disrespect to anyone, but it's frustrating when the majority of people are arguing for something they have never experienced.

[talaniman]

Been there done that. And yes Vegas is really no place to take children. But my real peeve is that the high class call girl and white upper-class types get away with whatever and the only ones going to jail are those walking the streets that's not fair . The same with drugs. Street people don't have access to drugs unless somebody goes and gets them, who goes to jail and who makes money. I've seen enough human carnage to last a life time so if your frustrated, you can imagine how I feel. So back to the topic, why do high class white women making money and the low class minorities going to jail?
Every city has its drug and prostitution district and the only reason you'd be there is your looking to do business. The city fathers pad their arrest record by cracking down and hauling a lot of folks to jail and it looks good on paper.
However the places you will rarely see are the suburban drug and prostitute rings who operate with impunity catering to well connected clients with money. NOT fair!

No disrespect to anyone, but it's frustrating when the majority of people are arguing for something they have never experienced

You just don't know!

[JoeCanada76]

What is wrong with discussing morals, and society. What is wrong with discussing situations or experiances that a person might have or might have not experienced?
Is it me or is it the heat? Anybody here under an extreme heat and humid warning, It is like 110 FH maybe 40 degrees c.

Joe

[talaniman]

Its 104 and rising at 3pm in Irving, Tx
Had to walk two blocks and darned near passed out, its been in the 100's since Wednesday with no relief in sight. 106 degrees is the danger threshold.
There can be no change in our lives unless we talk about it.

I just saw a movie Sunday about kids being kidnapped and sold and brought to the US as sex slaves. Third world families where selling there kids to buy food ,it was a eye opener and disgusted me to outrage at the way humans can treat other humans. That and the war in the middle east has got me more unglued and sorry folks if I let the frustration show. Sometimes I remember all the things I've seen and I just loose it for a bit.

[JoeCanada76]

No sorry is needed.

Frustration is a normal human emotion that we all experience in hot weather. Lol

[Jay_Jay]

Frustration is a normal human emotion that we all experience in hot weather. Lol

And not always just in HOT weather lol ;)

What is wrong with discussing morals, and society. What is wrong with discussing situations or experiances that a person might have or might have not experienced?

Nothing at all

[wizzkid89]

Look I am not going to get mad at you tally, maybe because I live by the bay and I always have the air on. It's a good 76 degrees right now. So that whole thing about you just don't know, I am going to let it go. I was not arguing that the white upper class or the call girl should be left alone and that only the streetwalker should be arrested. I NEVER SAID THAT. I simply said that legalizing prostitution would only create a vegas like atmosphere around the whole city. And since you have been there, you can agree it's no place for growing families. I agree all prostitution needs to be stopped from the small fish to the big fish, and all the drug rings that go along with it. I never said to leave those guys alone. I have been arguing that legalizing prostitution in America will only descreate our good cities, or at least make the good parts transform into the already slums that these cities have. If it's legalized there is no reason it wouldn't spread and just eat the entire city. Anyway, that was all that I was arguing, not the fact that the lower class should get penalized and the upper class shouldn't.

As for the fact of discussing a situation in which you have not experienced, there is some times where it is wrong. For instance, in this very case, to not know the outcome of a fully legalized prostitution city(aka las vegas) you wouldn't be able to fully imagine what your city would succomb to. That is simply all I am saying, if you don't know what it's like it's hard to argue for something that you have never experienced, there is something wrong with that, but I don't really feel like arguing over that too. So if we could just stay on topic of legalizing prostitution, that would be great :)

[talaniman]

76 degrees, invite me to lunch today!And that, you just don't know, post was about me, not you.
Now that that's over...

My idea for legalization has two purposes as I see it 1) To regulate the industry health wise and monitor the activity and keep the criminal element out 2) Make sure you can corral it through zoning ordinances so it would be out of site and out of mind. This would I think also restrict it from becoming a criminal zone as enforcement would be a lot easier especially if its monitored and participants registered.
Unlike Vegas which is the ultimate party town, and anything goes, our large cities would not have to open the whole town up just zone it to an appropriate setting.
I can understand how people feel and I myself would rather it be eliminated but that has and never will happen in my opinion so step must be made to control it and give some measure of safety. Right now as things stand you have a breeding ground for the worst of the worst kind of human animal. That must change.
If anyone would have other ideas either for elimination or control I got my ears on.

[wizzkid89]

I agree that past solution has not worked, however only a small percentage of prostitutes actually spread std's, the largest percentage is teenagers. So there really is no need of regulating for health purposes. I also agree that it would take the criminal element out, only because it would no longer be illegal, but drugs would still be apart of it. However, as for the zoning ordinaces why do you think we could confine it to a zone, when we can't even stop it now? I don't think setting a boundary for it would work, it would definitely spill over, and there would be petitions for it to be legal in all parts of town. I honestly don't believe it would stick to one part of town. I do agree things need to change, but I do want to rule out legalization, as I think there are better alternative methods, but at this time I have no suggestions for one, but like you I too have my ears on.

[talaniman]

Maybe a prison system that does more than just incarcerate inmates would be a way to go. Education, and training and counceling to prepare them to return to the real world and have a direction instead of falling back to old ways.