[valinors_sorrow]

It is obvious to me there is a lot of confusion between dating and relationships. Much like the resume may get you an interview, and the interview may land you that great job... it works much the same way in the romance department too.

The introduction is what precedes being asked out or asking out... and dating may get you a relationship... and a relationship may yield a marriage. There are however NO guarantees. If you need one, then consider owning a pet.

Granted, some people may be able to progress through these steps more rapidly than others, but skip or rush anyone else in the process and I believe the price will be paid.

One simply cannot build a relationship on guilt --- guilt such as "hey, I love you so therefore you should love me"... or worst yet, "hey I put out for you so you better make an honest woman/man out of me!"

Giving someone your heart is a no strings attached deal, otherwise you are fearing failure and resorting to a form of manipulation, however subtle it may be. Think about that and who'll you get doing it that way. It may save you posting down the road about how they did you so wrong...

Just a few thoughts, feel free to comment!

[NeedKarma]

On that same subject, I never really understood how people can date several people at once before they are "committed" or "exclusive". I could never do it, I could always only date one person at a time.

[talaniman]

Good subject Val

Dating in my opinion was a way to get to know someone and hang out and have fun. I see nothing wrong at all with dating several people at the same time as no one is really into the exclusive part of it, and may never get that far after a few dates. A relationship is an exclusive, committed partnership that may or may not lead to marriage or living together.
The problem comes when one side or another gets the idea that a date is a relationship and makes demands based on that idea. Honest communications are needed in dating, relationships, an marriage to keep everyone on the same page and keep expectations reasonable.
We have seen over and over what disasters occur when one partner doesn't know what the other is about and assumes more than they should! It is even worse when we take the ball and run into a relationship after knowing our partner for a very little time and find out that A charming smile hides the personality of an axe murderer. For our own good, dating should be fun with no strings, and relationships thought out and well defined. Just my take on it!

[Wildcat21]

"but skip or rush anyone else in the process and I believe the price will be paid."

OHHHHHHHH so true - always and forever!!

I like Val's steps... that's a least KIND of a guidelines. Some progress faster than others.

All I can say is... AND we say it over and over here - IF you think you want a relationship with someone... take it slow - or you will crash and burn.

BTW - GREAT THREAD!!

"For our own good, dating should be fun with no strings, and relationships thought out and well defined. Just my take on it!"

That is so true Talaniman!

Great stuff.

[Depressed in MO]

Although these are all good pointers, a lot of these threads that seem the same are very different from each other. No doubt a relationship/marriage takes two; however, there are people who have been lied to and cheated on-their significant others telling them that they love them, but then turn around and abuse and lie and cheat on them... are you all saying that the people who have posted on here asking for advice deserved it? In other words, are you saying we all pushed our partners to do these things to us? That's a poor judgement. You could be right on a lot of these postings, no doubt, but I don't believe that-that is the case every time. I believe you can push someone away in a relationship-but I don't believe you can push someone to beat on you, or push someone to cheat on you, or push someone to be dishonest with you. Those are people with issues who use good people to get whatever they can out of life "because they can". Why would they want to leave someone who does all these wonderful things for them? You can't push someone away who was never really there in the first place, but pretended to be.
But as far as the advice to watch out ahead of time-you are all absolutely right in my opinion.

[NeedKarma]

In my experience dating is a means for you to find out the profile of the person that is right for you for marriage. Whether that happens with the second person you date or the forty-second, you won't know what kind of person you want to spend your life with if you don't know what's out there.

Of course this all falls apart when we're talking about disfunctional relationships.

[Wildcat21]

Depressed - and you know this as much as anyone- my only advice o nthat is - with cheating they only deserve one chance UNLESS they will go to a lot of counseling.

I know from my studies that once a cheater, always the cheater. The cheater has a flawed gene where they justify that it's OK to cheat when in a committed relationship. It doesn'yt go away.

No you never pushed your partner to do things, but it is a good idea to take a step backwards at times.

Abuse, cheating, lying... all are part of a flawed, broken person - you did nothing to push these.

Hun - in your particular case... that guy was about as bad as they come. He is a huge broken mess, who I don't think would ever get better.

[talaniman]

Although these are all good pointers, alot of these threads that seem the same are very different from each other. No doubt a relationship/marriage takes two; however, there are people who have been lied to and cheated on-their significant others telling them that they love them, but then turn around and abuse and lie and cheat on them...are you all saying that the people who have posted on here asking for advice deserved it? In other words, are you saying we all pushed our partners to do these things to us? That's a poor judgement. You could be right on a lot of these postings, no doubt, but I don't believe that-that is the case everytime. I believe you can push someone away in a relationship-but I don't believe you can push someone to beat on you, or push someone to cheat on you, or push someone to be dishonest with you. Those are people with issues who use good people to get whatever they can out of life "because they can". Why would they want to leave someone who does all these wonderful things for them? You can't push someone away who was never really there in the first place, but pretended to be.
But as far as the advice to watch out ahead of time-you are all absolutely right in my opinion.

You can't avoid everything but you can take your time to see what your getting into. A month before you move in with some one or give your heart away is not my idea of taking your time. Sex on the first date and thinking your in love is not a good idea in my opinion!

[jc105]

I feel that when choosing that person you want to be with, you have to be sure of who they are, and that this is the TYPE of preson you want to be with.

Don't be with someone that you want to change. When dating this isn't as much of an issue, but don't be in a long term relationship and do things behind the others back, from smoking to cheating. It doesn't harbor a healthy relationship.

[valinors_sorrow]

...however, there are people who have been lied to and cheated on-their significant others telling them that they love them, but then turn around and abuse and lie and cheat on them. ... Those are people with issues who use good people to get whatever they can out of life "because they can".

I didn't post a thread called "Love versus Trust" but perhaps we should? It is quite possible to love someone who cannot be trusted - they are separate things. Every parent with an actively addicted child learns that lesson. I have experienced it in loving some very dysfunctional people in my lifetime. The question really is -- Are you willing to spend time with them even when they are untrustworthy, now that you know that? Don't believe it when someone who has betrayed you says they love you - they may want you or need you, sure. But real love doesn't go around betraying people - and I just want that on the record here.

I just hate to see people demonstrate how much love hurts or causes them to suffer when it is NOT love that is doing that -- something else is in the mix and poor ol' love gets the bad rap. It was suggested to me once-- if it hurts that bad, it isn't love. Also its not real love if you are saying "Oh I love ___ so much if only they would ____." Apart from unrequitted love, I challenge anyone to put up an example of a relationship gone bad and I'll bet it turns out instead to be about dishonesty, codependency, prejudice, low self esteem, bargaining, manipulation,etc... its a long list here but its important to call it what it is... if its ever to be solved. But then we are way past the topic of dating versus relationships now.

What I was suggesting at the end of my first post is that very often people who manipulate their way into a relationship (by circumventing the natural process) are very likely to have a partner who is equally as flawed since healthy people won't put up with that - that was all I was saying. It seems to be occurring often enough these days that before anyone complains about their partner or spouse, it probably warrents a good look at self to be certain. That is all I meant.

[Wildcat21]

"But real love doesn't go around betraying people" - EXACTLY!!

That's what this whole 'Relationship' topic is about!!

Awsome post Val!!

[Depressed in MO]

I didn't post a thread called "Love versus Trust" but perhaps we should? It is quite possible to love someone who cannot be trusted - they are seperate things. Every parent with an actively addicted child learns that lesson. I have experienced it in loving some very dysfunctional people in my lifetime. The question really is -- Are you willing to spend time with them even when they are untrustworthy, now that you know that? Don't believe it when someone who has betrayed you says they love you - they may want you or need you, sure. But real love doesn't go around betraying people - and I just want that on the record here.

I just hate to see people demonstrate how much love hurts or causes them to suffer when it is NOT love that is doing that -- something else is in the mix and poor ol' love gets the bad rap. It was suggested to me once-- if it hurts that bad, it isn't love. Also its not real love if you are saying "Oh I love ___ so much if only they would ____." Apart from unrequitted love, I challenge anyone to put up an example of a relationship gone bad and I'll bet it turns out instead to be about dishonesty, codependency, prejudice, low self esteem, bargaining, manipulation,etc.....its a long list here but its important to call it what it is.... if its ever to be solved. But then we are way past the topic of dating versus relationships now.

What I was suggesting at the end of my first post is that very often people who manipulate their way into a relationship (by circumventing the natural process) are very likely to have a partner who is equally as flawed since healthy people won't put up with that - that was all I was saying. It seems to be occuring often enough these days that before anyone complains about their partner or spouse, it probably warrents a good look at self to be certain. That is all I meant.

"I didn't post a thread called "Love versus Trust" but perhaps we should?"-Was that really necessary?
Anyway, you were talking about dating vs relationships and love and trust are all a part of a relationship-even when dating trust is an issue. Obviously you need to know the person you are going out with. Which is why blind dates don't usually work out! But anyway, I wasn't trying to switch "threads" on you, I was just stating my opinion. Perhaps I perceived peoples (not yours) comments a different way when I read them and I was stating my opinion based on that. This is a very good thread.

[Wildcat21]

Blind dates work if you slowly, over many months, get to know that person.

You rush into things and you WILL crash and burn.

[J_9]

I am a product of a blind date. That was almost 50 years ago now.

So, they do work out. The problem is you never hear about those, you only hear about the bad dates and the bad relationships.

Good things in life are considered normal, that is why we remember the rare and unusual.

[talaniman]

I am a product of a blind date. That was almost 50 years ago now.

So, they do work out. The problem is you never hear about those, you only hear about the bad dates and the bad relationships.

Good things in life are considered normal, that is why we remember the rare and unusual.

50! Yeah right! I'm 52 and I don't look nuthin like that, sorry a little off-thread!

[J_9]

Had to spread it around some more, but yeah I am 50, NOT!! Not yet anyway.

I am 42, and the product of a blind date ande th folks have been married almost 50.

The blind date was almost 50 years ago!!

Or, I could have said plastic surgery!!

[talaniman]

Hmm Be interesting to know how they worked things out for 50 years :) and you should keep the I.D. handy. ( flirting skills still there;) )meant as a compliment.:D :o

[J_9]

Thank you, I will take it as a compliment.

I try to keep the flirting skills up to date.

[valinors_sorrow]

"I didn't post a thread called "Love versus Trust" but perhaps we should?"-Was that really necessary?

Oh dear I think it was read differently than intended... what I meant was yes, that would be a good topic too. See? Nothing up my sleeve... :p

[Depressed in MO]

Oh dear I think it was read differently than intended ... what I meant was yes, that would be a good topic too. See? Nothing up my sleeve... :p

Sorry, Val, got a little moody on you. I thought you were dissing on me.