[student007]

Has anyone here gone to med school with a non-science background? I have a BBA, and am wondering if I can do med school. Just want to hear what you guys think.

Thx

[J_9]

Student,you MUST have a science background for med school. I needed one for nursing and mine is mild compared to what med school needs.

You will need all chemistries including organic as well as anatomy and physiology, several microboligies.

Please remember that medicine is a science, you cannot perform a science without a science background.

[student007]

Most Canadian Med Schools require only a 4-year degree of any sort (science is not required). So does Harvard. But what I want to know is: how difficult would it be for one who has only OAC/grade 12 bio, chem, and physics?

[CaptainForest]

From my understanding, any one can apply to medical school here in Canada as long as you have a university degree.

However, if that degree isn't in science, it is going to be really tough.

The stuff you learn in gr. 12/OAC Chem/Bio, etc. is nothing compared to the stuff you would learn in a 4 year undergraduate degree.

But, that is only my opinion.

Contact one of the medical schools and ask them directly:

Partial List (Ontario - http://www.ouac.on.ca/omsas/)
Michael G. DeGroote School of Medicine (McMaster University)
Northern Ontario School of Medicine
University of Ottawa
Queen's University
University of Toronto
Schulich School of Medicine (The University of Western Ontario).

[J_9]

Harvard does not require sciences? I beg to differ as my uncle works in the medi library.

With a grade 12 education you must go to a college to get your prerequisites under your belt.

If Harvard does not require sciences then you must complete them before applying to Harvard. The simple fact that medicine is a science should be sufficient to understand that you must complete science in order to become an MD.

Honestly, I would not want a doc doing procedures on me that has not studied Anatomy & Physiology, that is a science.

I would not want a pharmacist to fill medication who has not been through chemsitry or pharmacology. Those are both sciences.

The schools that you are probably looking at that do not require science usually require that you complete the sciences beforehand.

[Fr_Chuck]

You degree may of course be in any subject, but you have to take specific and general classes that cover certan areas of knowledge.

If you have no knowledge of some specific information, that is considered known by everyone else, they will not take time for you to learn it.

I took some physcial therpy classes last month, but a mat measurement was just expected to be known how it was done, what it was and what points you use to detemine the measurements, if you did not have that knowledge ( and I and several did not) we were lost from about minute 2 of the class. And they were jumping into various medical conditions just expecting you to know each name and what it was.

So if you want to do a certain goal, even if you have to go another semestor or two to college to get some basic classes that will help you do better) A opinion anyway

[GaryArt]

There is nothing that requires your undergraduate degree to be in a natural science in order to apply for admission to medical school. But, as any admissions office will tell you, without a solid background in biological science, you're going to find medical school very tough going. And, in truth, most American (and it would seem from the earlier posts, Canadian as well) medical schools are going to look for an undergrad degree in a hard science as evidence that you can do the work, and that they won't be giving the seat to a potential flunk-out, although, obviously you could be a savant - a virtual science genious - with no undergrad degree at all, or with a bachelors in art history. Conversely, you could have a four-year degree in chemistry, and not know that sodium is salt. I think a B.S. in a bioscience just eases the admissions committee's collective mind, and improves your chances of getting in - and completing a science major sure won't hurt you on the MSAT, or once you're a med student. But, people do get admitted, graduate, and become great doctors, with degrees in all kinds of things. An undergrad psychology degree is very popular with med school applicants, who are strongly inclined to pursue psychiatry as a specialty.

Another interesting point about your undergrad concentration is that the requirement of a four-year degree as a prerequisite to admission to med school is a North American phenomenon. In the U.K. you go from high school to medical school. Now granted, English secondary schools are probably far more academically rigorous than ours, so perhaps an 18-year-old English high school (Sixth Former or 'A' Level, or whatever they call it) grad is typically far better prepared for first-year med school classes, but if you feel your science skills are sufficient, there's nothing to stop you from going to school in England or Scotland. You would still have to get admitted, and it's probably every bit as competitive over there as it is here, but you would get your M.D. four years sooner, save a boat load of cash (education is much more reasonably priced there anyway, plus you wouldn't have to pay for the four years of undergrad at all), and experience living abroad. Medical school in the U.K. is generally a five year program.

Australia also operates under a system where you go from high school to medical school for five years. Two tremendous additional advantages available in Australia: Unlike Britain, the nomenclature of Australian undergraduate, graduate, and postgraduate degrees is identical to that utilized in the United States. Although licensure authorities are familiar with the differences, and the equivalancies, the unfamiliar credentials can prove distracting to some patients, and even some colleagues and professional organizations. Whether to sign a prescription "M.D.", as American patients, nurses, and pharmacists are accustomed to, when in actuality, you hold a Diploma Medico Cirujano, a titulo, or perhaps an MBChB degree, is problematic. But Australian credentials trerminology tracks what we are accustomed to in the U.S.

Additionally, in contrast with the situation in England, there is adequate space to permit the frequent admission of foreign students, and the Ausrtalians welcome students from abroad.

In Cuba, med students also go directly from high school, by the med school curriculum is six years, which still cuts two years off. Cuba offers s limited number of full scholarships to U.S. high school grads. Everything is free, including food and lodging. Applicants must be of a racial or ethnic minority, and promise to practice in a rural or underserved area. Students attend the Latin American School of Medical Sciences, in Havana.

The only additional requirements would be that, once you graduated, even though you might be an American coming home, and not an immigrant, like every other foreign-trained doctor, before you could take a state licensing exam to practice medicine, you would have to pass two tests, the TOEFL (Test of English as a Foreign Language) and the ECFMG (Educational Commission on Foreign Medical Graduates) test. Only after you have passed those, will you be permitted to take the first parts of the USMLE (United States Medical Licensing Examination), which is what every state uses to test before licensure, and which you must pass before you can be admitted to a residency program. (The third part of the USMLE is taken later, prior to final licensure as a doctor).

Once you pass the TOEFL, the ECFMG, and the preliminary portions of the USMLE, you apply to the ACGME (Accrediting Council for Graduate Medical Education). You show the ACGME that you've passed the TOEFL, the ECFMG, and the first parts of the USMLE, and they will issue you a document attesting to your qualifications to go further. As long as you are certified by the ACGME, there is virtually no problem getting accepted into any residency program you're suited for, at any U.S. hospital.
Once you've made it that far, there is no stigma, and no more extra requirements just because you went to med school overseas.

OK, one more thing - If you're up to it scholastically, and you're just in a hurry, or not wanting to spend a lot of time in school, there are a couple of ways to speed things up. There are two programs that accelerate med school, condensing it from fours years to two. One is at the University of Miami, Florida. The other is at the Universidad Autonoma de Guadalajara (Guadalajara Regional University). Both require you to already have a doctorate level degree in a health science or natural science field. We're talking a Ph.D. in anatomy, biology, chemistry, zoology, etc. a D.M.D. (dental), a D.V.M. (veterinarian), or something similar. The thinking is that a vet, a dentist, a zoologist, already knows how to do healing stuff, so you don't have to train them to heal, you just have to show them how to translate it from teeth to bodies, from animals to humans, etc. which can be done much more quickly.

The programs are alike in the entrance requirements, but differ in how they work. U.M.'s approach is, 'hey, a veterinarian is ready already... ' Give him two years of intensive medical training - cram it in, get it over with quickly, we can leave out some stuff he already knows to save time. As you can probably tell, this program is extremely rigorous. About 20 people a year are accepted; for as tough as you can imagine it would be academically, getting in is even harder. The admissions process is very competitive.

The Mexican program is a little less frantic. A doctorate level degree in a healing or hard science field means you have the basic medical and scientific knowledge to skip the first two years of med school, which consists largely of building a base of knowledge in anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pathology, and related disciplines to enable your subsequent study of medicine, pathology, etiology, and other specifically "doctor" stuff.

Assuming you have the prerequisite degree, and you get accepted, you go to Mexico for a short residency involving basic testing to make sure you're suitable to proceed, and then you return to wherever you want to be, and work under the supervision of a physician You have to arrainge that part yourself, including any financial arraingements; the school will let you know if your nominee is acceptable, which he or she almost always will be, so long as they are competent, properly licensed, and agree to serve. (It is often a lot easier to find an osteopathic physician to serve as your proctor than an M.D. simply because a lot of American M.D.s went to a four year college, then went to four years of medical school, then did an internship, and then served a residency to get certified in their specialty... and they think everybody else ought to do it just like they did... perhaps they are a little suspicious of foreign medical schols, or of "cutting corners". It matters not, you can study under an osteopath - the school wii still test you as, and your diploma will say "M.D.", which is what you'll be.) Anyway, about every six to nine months, you visit Mexico for a week or so of testing, so that the school can document your mastry of the curriculum, learning what they directed you to focus on during that semester, and then you return primed to start learning the next field of study. You can earn your M.D. through this program
In 24 months.

Other than that, a lot of schools now are offerring accelerated programs where you earn a B.S. and an M.D. in six years, instead
Of eight.

What do you call a guy who was kind of slow, forgot a lot of things, somewhat clumsy, made a lot of mitakes, and ended up graduating dead last in his class at medical school? You call him "doctor". Good luck.

[student007]

Wow... a lot of info. Well, I'm already in my second year in a non-science undergrad here in Canada. I plan on taking some first- and eventually second-year science courses to fill my pre-reqs and ideally go to med school here in Canada. All of the sites say that the med schools are impartial to whether you have a science degree or not, that they will be entirely objective, but I'm pretty sure it'll be even a bit science-favoured.