[jsutherlin]

I am in the process of remodeling an older bathroom (1965) and had a question regarding the wiring.

From the single switch box where the feed from the circuit breaker comes in there is a 12/3 circuit going to the ceiling fan/light. There is also a 12/2 going to the vanity light. Can I change the 12/2 to a 12/3 and take the unswitched 2nd hot and the shared common and ground and run a 12/2 from the vanity light box to a GFI outlet. The reason I'd like to do it this way is because the single switch box is going to be pretty crowded if I run an additional 12/2 for the single outlet.

[pocojo]

What you are planning to do is not kosher and bottom line against the national Electric Code. However I will tell you that nowhere should lighting circuits become power circuits. What you are trying to do is a bastardization of fthe electrical code. You will probably get away with what you are doing, but God forbid a fire or something should ensue, you will be screwed as as far as any insurance company investigation reveals. They are real good at what they do.

[stanfortyman]

Sorry, I have to comment here:

What you are planning to do is not kosher and bottom line against the national Electric Code.

Wrong.
If the circuit is 20A, which we can safely assume it is, and this circuit does not leave this bathroom what he is proposing is fine and legal.

However I will tell you that nowhere should lighting circuits become power circuits.

Really? Since when. There are very few prohibitions with regard to mixings lighting and receptacles on a circuit. Kitchens and laundry areas are the two main ones. Most other areas are fair game.

What you are trying to do is a bastardization of fthe electrical code. You will probably get away with what you are doing, but God forbid a fire or something should ensue, you will be screwed as as far as any insurance company investigation reveals. They are real good at what they do.

No, not so much.
An insurance company cannot deny a claim just because something was not done to code, which it seems is not even the case here. I have this on good authority right from an insurance agent.
The work would have to be done to intentionally cause a loss. In that case your insurance is the least of your worries.

[pocojo]

I agree with the person who states you should never have lighting and power circuits, together. You are violating the Natl. elect. Code and setting your home up for a possible elect. Fire.When dealing with electric, you better make sure you have a qualified electrician to guide you through your alterations. Never play around with electric in your home ,as you can lose that home because of mindless mistakes. Make sure you know what you are doing.
Joel

[stanfortyman]

I agree with the person who states you should never have lighting and power circuits, together. You are violating the Natl. elect. code and setting your home up for a possible elect. fire.

OK:

A) The person you are agreeing with is yourself. :rolleyes:

B) Please quote the code section(s) showing this violation of the NEC.
If you like I can provide the specific section show where it is allowed.

C) PLEASE explain how this is capable of causing a fire.


I will refrain from any further negative comments for now.

[tkrussell]

Jsutherlin,

I would like to confirm that Stan is absolutely correct, with the conditions he mentions, as long as the circuit breaker is a 20 amp protecting the #12 wire, AND this circuit(s) is solely for this bathroom, you may have the lights and fan in THIS bathroom on this same circuit with the receptacle in this bathroom.

Rest assured that Stan is a real and active electrician, and is a true expert.


I wait in anticipation for Pocojo to respond to Stan with any applicable code sections to back up his/her claims.

Poco is not familiar with the National Electric Code as related to residential bathrooms and general purpose lighting circuits, another location that allows lighting and power receptacles to be on the same circuit.

Jsutherlin, just be sure to not use a shared neutral on the load side of a GFI receptacle, or a single pole GFI circuit breaker.

Poco, Stan is waiting, patiently, for you to substantiate your claims and advice.

[pocojo]

Sorry, I didn't realize the code went that far. I stand corrected and am sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

[jsutherlin]

Thanks for the quick replies. Tkrussel/stan, I do have a 20A breaker used only for this bathroom with a #10 wire from the breaker because of the distance to the box. I was hoping that using a 12/3 to the vanity light would be OK if the 2nd hot is only used for the single GFI outlet and the common and ground are shared from the vanity light. Sounds like sharing the common is not a good idea? Thanks again, Jim.

[Tev]

Sharing the neutral is OK on the line side of the GFCI. If you protect anything else with the GFCI using the load terminations you have to keep the line and load separate.

[tkrussell]

Exactly Tev.

Poco, no ruffled feathers here, or with Stan. I don't take much personally, neither does Stan, thou you will find Stan is not shy or introverted, by any means.

Actually seems to me he was fairly objective and informative, and polite.

Just trying to be sure everyone gets accurate information, as your advice was not accurate.

If you expect to answer more questions here, be dead on accurate, esp with code issues.

Some advice may be open to lively discussion, due to opinions etc.

Code is usually very clear.

How far do you think the code goes? Code is fairly comprehensive for most installations, there will always be situations that need interpretation, This one did not.

When answering , be sure to be factual, cite source.

If it is an opinion about a particular topic, state so.

[stanfortyman]

Perfect reply TK. Thank you.
And thank you Poco.

[jsutherlin]

Thanks again for the replies! Your help will make this bathroom remodel go that much smoother. Jim