[Tj3]

Then when did you just claim that Paul adhered to "Pauline doctrine"? Is that a denomination?

Sigh - since De Maria claim that Christianity is TJ doctrine that I adhered to, then by analogy, Paul must have adhered to pauline doctrine when he adhere to Christianity.

Not to hard for you to follow is it?

[Tj3]

You're the one who said he didn't want to talk about the history of doctrine, but only about the Bible. Do you take Paul to follow a doctrine other than that of Christ?

It would really be beneficial for you to actually read the messages. This has been an on-going problem in having an intelligent discussion with you. You claim to be a scholar, but I have never met a scholar with such poor reading habits. That, once again, leads me to question your claim.

[Akoue]

Sigh - since De Maria claim that Christianity is TJ doctrine that I adhered to, then by analogy, Paul must have adhered to pauline doctrine when he adhere to Christianity.

Not to hard for you to follow is it?

You should get that breathing problem checked out. You sigh an awful lot. Could be serious.

What you said is:

"And Paul followed Pauline doctrine."

Any luck coming up with an explanation of Eph.2.8-9?

[Tj3]

You should get that breathing problem checked out. You sigh an awful lot. Could be serious.

What you said is:

"And Paul followed Pauline doctrine."

I did - now read the whole post and the context. That should not be too hard for a person who claims to be a scholar.

It appears that you don't care at all about a real discussion, which is why we gfin you continually saying...

Any luck coming up with an explanation of Eph.2.8-9?

Well after the question was answered several times.

[Akoue]

I did - now read the whole post and the context. That should not be too hard for a person who claims to be a scholar.

It appears that you don't care at all about a real discussion, which is why we gfin you continually saying...



Well after the question was answered several times.

And it was answered where? If there were several it shouldn't be hard to point me to one.

[Akoue]

Take your time with that Tj. I'm going to bed now and look forward to finding an explanation of my error regarding Eph.2.8-9 in the morning. Don't stay up too late with that, okay?

[Tj3]

And it was answered where? If there were several it shouldn't be hard to point me to one.

If you wonder why I won't dance when you call the tune, it it not just because of your past attitude and lack of caring about a real discussion, but look at your behaviour in how silly you took things out of context with respect to "Pauline doctrine".

That tells me that your attitude has not improved since yesterday.

Tell me then why I should do your work in searching for posts out of 600 when you already saw my answers when your attitude shows such little regard for serious discussion. If you really have made a dramatic change in attitude, demonstrate it in your attitude and behaviour. That will go much further than childish repetition that sound like "are we there yet..."

[De Maria]

I never said that you believe only in works. If you claim that to be true, show me the quote.

Message #474

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
Then why are you spending so much time arguing in favour of a works gospel?

That is how you characterize it. It's the strawman you build so that you can knock it down. But it isn't what we believe. We believe in faith and works:

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Sincerely,

De Maria

But having rejected the sufficiency of Christ,

Another mischaracterization. We accept the Sacrifice of the Cross wholeheartedly. But we understand that Jesus did not thereby save every living soul. He saved those who accept His sacrifice and demonstrate this acceptance by obedience in Him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

and substituting even part of the merits of salvation with the works of men is an issue no matter hwat percentage it may be.

And that's another mischaracterization. We don't substitute Christ's merits with men's works. WE UNITE our lives to His Sacrifice in obedience to Scripture:

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

1 Peter 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

And Paul followed Pauline doctrine. If you associate my beliefs so closely with scripture, I guess that is a compliment.

On the contrary. Your beliefs are peculiarly your own. They have nothing to do with Christ or with Paul.

Is dishonesty a good work of your god? I said and I quote (indeed you even quoted me earlier):

"One more time - this time, please read. Professing to be faithful does not save anyone. Receiving Jesus as Saviour is what saves.
Further, your question is in and of itself contradictory because one cannot be faithful and not do good works. "

If you must lie about what I said to defend your faith, is it worth defending?

You left out the direct answer to the question. What about those who profess faithfulness but don't work? You said, "No, it is Christian doctrine."

Sincerely,

[Tj3]

Another mischaracterization.

It may not be a characterization that you like, but it is true nonetheless.

... and substituting even part of the merits of salvation with the works of men is an issue no matter hwat percentage it may be.

And that's another mischaracterization. We don't substitute Christ's merits with men's works. WE UNITE our lives to His Sacrifice in obedience to Scripture:

Wordsmithing does not change the reality. Jesus' sacrifice is all sufficient for my salvation.
You say that you need your works. That leaves Jesus' sacrifice as not being sufficient.

You left out the direct answer to the question. What about those who profess faithfulness but don't work? You said, "No, it is Christian doctrine."

That is not true, but clearly you really do have no shame. After being exposed once, you repeat the same lie. Is dishonesty a good work of your god? I said and I quote (indeed you even quoted me earlier):

"One more time - this time, please read. Professing to be faithful does not save anyone. Receiving Jesus as Saviour is what saves.
Further, your question is in and of itself contradictory because one cannot be faithful and not do good works. "

If you must lie about what I said to defend your faith, is it worth defending?

[De Maria]

Good night all.

[De Maria]

It may not be a characterization that you like, but it is true nonetheless.

Wordsmithing does not change the reality. Jesus' sacrifice is all sufficient for my salvation.
You say that you need your works. That leaves Jesus' sacrifice as not being sufficient.

More mischaracterizations.

Whom should one believe. An anti-Catholic with an interest in maligning the Church?
A faithful Catholic with an interest in properly presenting Catholic doctrine?

Good night.

[Tj3]

More mischaracterizations.

The truth offends.

Whom should one believe. An anti-Catholic with an interest in maligning the Church?

I notice that with Catholics, when the Bible is quoted, many eventually turn to name-calling against their opponents.

Is that a work of your god?

[Tj3]

2 Tim 1:8-12
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.
NKJV

Eph 2:7-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

1 Cor 2:2
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
NKJV

[arcura]

Akoue
Apparently Tj3 will talk about bogus history by not real authentic history.
It has been PROVEN here sever times in several way was will as from the bible and real history that The Church, now called the Catholic Church has been around since Jesus established it.
Why does the truth not register on Tj3?
Could it be because he is afraid of the truth?
Or is it because he is a bigot about denominations?
Or is it because the truth means little to him?
Or is there another reason or two?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Fred

[Curlyben]

>Thread Closed<
As ever it's going round in circles.