[Alty]

Synn, I had to spread the rep, I hate it when that happens. I agree 190%!

If you need signatures for your new campaign, let me know, I'm not American, heck, I'm not even Canadian, but I'll sign. :)

[cozyk]

Love is one thing, right and wrong from a exact moral value is another.

When my son has to see two men kissing in public after knowing that homosexual relationship is morally wrong by our beliefs, is not our rights hurt, are we not being discriminated against, guess that does not matter.

But the religious moral values have often been the minority and often the criminal element of society, so I guess today should not be any different.

So if being moral is wrong, I am proud to be so, If teaching the absolute truth of the bible or even the Koran or Torah is evil, I am glad to be the most evil of them all.

So Chuck,
What if your son WAS one of two men kissing in public? private or anywhere else.
You don't control what is the essence of another human being.
If he was gay, he would be gay and no amount of teaching that it is morally wrong would change that. Sure, he may suppress himself, since his christian father has scared the bageebies out of him, but he would still be what he is. When teens are shamed for who they are they are depressed, may turn to drugs, or even resort to killing themselves.

Being gay does not just come down to sex. You are still gay whether you have sex with a same sex partner or not. Is that the part that christians are so irate about?
Don't you think God has bigger fish to fry than to worry about who is loving who. Love is encouraged.

Your intolerance is turning people away from your religion. Not because we don't want any rules and we want to do what we want to do. It's because you preach division, judgment, and condemn any love that does not fit your narrow definition.

[cozyk]

[QUOTE=inthebox;1448682]Define "rights."

So if one "man" wants to steal 50 billion should that be his constitutional "right" even though the majority think it illlegal? Should he get Jerry Brown to make it his "right" to do this?

What is criminal is using the court to supercede a public vote on the issue.

Whose "morality" are we talking about? How about getting rid of that "religiously imposed " morality against murder or stealing or lying? Are we talking about your morality? How is your morality any better than the majority voters in CA on prop 8? :confused:

And lets be clear here, just because I am, or someone is, not for gay marriage does not necessarily mean we are anti - gay. We can accept and love the person yet disagree or be against a [the] behavior [s].


John 8

Notice that once again sarcasm is applied when you don't have a leg to stand on.
Notice that the things that you mentioned do harm to someone else. They infringe on someone elses property or life. How does being gay take anything away from you?
Why is it any of your business? How can love between two people be wrong?

[Alty]

What I can't understand is the hate. Why so much hate for another human being? If this hate is condoned in the bible, then that's another wonderful reason for me to keep it out of my life.

I thought that Christians were supposed to be loving, caring, the essence of humanity. What about all this talk of "love thy neighbor", what happened to that? Are you really allowed to chose which neighbor to love?

Love is a wonderful thing, how does same sex love affect you personally? I don't understand what you think a gay couple can do to you if given the right to marry. Please, someone explain it to me, because I'm in the dark. What powers will they have once they're allowed to marry? Is it that you can't stand them having the same rights as the rest of us? Aren't they human? Last time I checked they were, maybe I'm wrong.

So, in other words, the bible preaches that we should love everyone, except the ones that we don't want to love. Guess I missed that part in bible class. :(

[inthebox]

[QUOTE=cozyk;1472579]

Define "rights."

So if one "man" wants to steal 50 billion should that be his constitutional "right" even though the majority think it illlegal? Should he get Jerry Brown to make it his "right" to do this?

What is criminal is using the court to supercede a public vote on the issue.

Whose "morality" are we talking about? How about getting rid of that "religiously imposed " morality against murder or stealing or lying? Are we talking about your morality? How is your morality any better than the majority voters in CA on prop 8? :confused:

And lets be clear here, just because I am, or someone is, not for gay marriage does not necessarily mean we are anti - gay. We can accept and love the person yet disagree or be against a [the] behavior [s].


John 8

Notice that once again sarcasm is applied when you don't have a leg to stand on.
Notice that the things that you mentioned do harm to someone else. They infringe on someone elses property or life. How does being gay take anything away from you?
Why is it any of your business? How can love between two people be wrong?

My leg is the majority vote of the people in California.

John 8 - Yes, you are forgiven, sin no more.

Prop 8 has nothing to do with to gay people loving each other. It was about MARRIAGE.

If 2 homosexuals want to love each other - hey go for it! - I never stated I was against LOVE.

I'm not homosexual so "being gay " does not take or add anything away from me ;) - sarcasm intended.




G&P

[Jake2008]

I wish for one moment that the religious anti prop 8 people, could come and spend a few days with me here in Canada.

Not only do gay married people not glow in the dark, steal children for sactifice, or corrupt our airwaves with hypnotic messages to convert straight people, they are surprisingly hard to spot.

They are hard to pick out of a crowd of teachers, bankers, shoppers at the mall and spectator events such as hockey or soccer.

They ARE your neighbours, friends, co-workers, lawyers and optometrists. They have two arms, two legs, usually wear shoes, and some even teach bible study at your local church, or are pastors and ministers themselves. Last I heard, they are more than welcoming of straight people in their flock.

Come during the Gay Pride Parade, which is the larges of its kind in the world. EVERYBODY comes out and has a great time. Even the Mayor of Toronto rode in one of the floats.

I have seen both sides of this coin, both before gay marriage was legal, and afterwards when everybody wondered what all the fuss was about.

I hope for the good people of California, that the 'after' comes sooner rather than later and everybody can get back to minding their own business. It really isn't a big deal.

[helloeverybody]

both sides stand up for moral issues? find that in the bible for me, I missed that verse.

I think he meant both sides believe in a moral issue. Both sides simply don't agree on either the moral or the interpretation of the moral.

I would also like to point out that the word moral implies that there is right and wrong. That there is only one way. That's what makes tolerance difficult. However, the word tolerance is interpreted in many different ways by many different people.

In general, if both sides have 'truth' to it then there are two possibilities. #1 one side is wrong, meaning one side isn't really true; one side isn't valid or doesn't have merit. (However, personal experience never fails, so therefore it must be true.) Or #2 We fail to see the connection between both truths. Since truth cannot contradict truth, when looking at a moral issue, perhaps we fail to see how the two pieces of the puzzle fit together?:)

[cozyk]

why, should peopel accept her the way she is.

My next door neighbor steals, he can not help hisself. He does not beelive he has a problem, and he is happy with life just the way he is. So am I suppose to just accept him the way he is, or do I want him to stop.

And I can go on and on with people who do all sorts of things, that todays society calls wrong, but they are happy doing what they are doing,
Should we also have to accept them, if they claim they are born that way, and if they are happy with thier lives doing what ever.

If your neighbor steals from you, he takes away your right to your own property.
If your neighbor is gay, what right of yours does that take away?
In fact, if you prohibit him from marrying and having the same legal rights as you, then YOU are actually taking away his rights.
See the difference?

[smurf69]

How can someone compare being fat to being gay?? Being fat is just who someone is. Some people mihgt say being gay is just who someone is I'm not that someone. Being gay does not work a gay couple can not have a child. This world started wit a man and a woman and if u ask me that's how its intended to be. If lesbians don't need men why go and buy dildos ha ha and gay men having sex leads to aids that sounds like a great idea. Being gay is a dysfunction in the brain and makes me sick

[Synnen]

being gay does not work a gay couple can not have a child.

My husband and I are infertile, and unable to have a child. Does that make us "not work" either? Is being married only about having children?

this world started wit a man and a woman and if u ask me thats how its intended to be.

That's YOUR opinion. MY opinion is that you place your religious views above the rights of other people. Know what? There were people that argued the same sort of thing to promote slavery. They said the reason blacks were slaves was that they were descended from Ham, who looked on his father Noah and laughed at his drunkenness, and that being forced to serve his brothers was God's punishment. So--if that's the case, should be go back to having slaves, then?

if lesbians dont need men why go and buy dildos ha ha and gay men having sex leads to aids that sounds like a great idea. being gay is a dysfunction in the brain and makes me sick

They don't NEED to buy a dildo any more than I, a married woman, NEEDS to have a vibrator. I have one, though, and it enhances my sex life. I can see why lesbians got away from men like YOU, though--you have no idea how much more important a good tongue is than some phallic thing.

Unprotected sex leads to AIDS. ALL unprotected sex. It doesn't matter if it's homosexual sex or heterosexual sex--AIDS is passed by stupidity, not by homosexuality.

Being stupid is a dysfunction of the brain, too. It makes me sick. Let's round up all those people who have below average intelligence and give them fewer rights because it's a dysfunction of the brain and makes me sick, shall we?

[Jake2008]

how can someone compare being fat to being gay ??? being fat is just who someone is. some people mihgt say being gay is just who someone is im not that someone. being gay does not work a gay couple can not have a child. this world started wit a man and a woman and if u ask me thats how its intended to be. if lesbians dont need men why go and buy dildos ha ha and gay men having sex leads to aids that sounds like a great idea. being gay is a dysfunction in the brain and makes me sick

I had to check the calendar to make sure it was 2009, and not 30 years ago!

Being gay is not a choice.

Being gay does work, and it has worked since the beginning of man's history.

Gay people do have children the same way anybody else who cannot naturally conceive do, they adopt if they are male. Many females have in vitro.

Sex toys are sex toys, and who cares who uses them for what, gay or straight.

Gay men having sex leads to aids? Here is something to ponder from statistics in Ireland.

Unprotected sex between men and women accounted for the highest number of cases, followed by drug use and sexual contact among homosexuals.
Northern Ireland News - Shadow Of AIDS Cast Over Ireland

The WHO (World Health Organization) considers Ireland's increase in AIDS as epidemic. (just Google AIDS epidemic in Ireland for 344,000 pages of information on that topic.

As to mental illness, Homophobia (fear of homosexuals) is one. Here are 1,390,000 hits on that topic alone.
fear of homosexuals - Google Search

I truly hope you attempt to educate yourself. Your ignorance is alarming.

[inthebox]

They only gave percentages.

300 % increase in a small number is still a small number:

For example:
If group A had 10 case last year a 300 % increase means 40 cases.

If group B had 100 cases and a 50 % increase, that means 50 new cases.

Also, 42% were born in subsahara - HIV is transmitted heterosexually more so than in western countries.

[GoodLuckJen]

It is intolerant because your teaching your children to be bias.

[cozyk]

If your neighbor steals from you, he takes away your right to your own property.
If your neighbor is gay, what right of yours does that take away?
In fact, if you prohibit him from marrying and having the same legal rights as you, then YOU are actually taking away his rights.
See the difference?

Chuck, you never said if you see the difference. I'm curious.

[inthebox]

Fact Sheet: HIV/AIDS among Men Who Have Sex with Men | Resources | HIV/AIDS and Men Who Have Sex with Men (MSM) | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

In the United States, HIV infection and AIDS have had a tremendous effect on men who have sex with men (MSM). MSM accounted for 71% of all HIV infections among male adults and adolescents in 2005 (based on data from 33 states with long-term, confidential name-based HIV reporting), even though only about 5% to 7% of male adults and adolescents in the United States identify themselves as MSM [1, 2].

[Fr_Chuck]

Homophobia a made up pretend word by the liberals to try and make normal moral people who are against homosexual behavior sound like something bad.

The fact is, it is a joke, I laugh when anyone tries to use the word seriously. In fact the entire world used to be that, and should be proud to do so. So are they scared of them, no of course not, exact fear that they will force their beliefs upon the majority of the US though court action
Fear, yes that the moral society which is already in the gutter will go on down the draim.

See the difference, yes I see a big difference between a right and a sexual preference and desire.
There is no special protection or right for sexual preference or gender issues. The right to be protected from thefts is one thing,
But everyone has the same right to get married, they may marry someone of the opposite sex, everyone has that right,
And everyone has the same restriction of not with someone of the same sex. So everyone is equal. What they want is their speical right,

I said this many years ago, when it all started, and people laughed at me when I warned about this sexual movement, they want this now, and more down the road, to destroy the fabric of marriage, and society.

[Synnen]

Fact Sheet: HIV/AIDS among Men Who Have Sex with Men | Resources | HIV/AIDS and Men Who Have Sex with Men (MSM) | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

And without even having to quote the CDC, 100% of all unplanned pregnancies are between heterosexual couples. That accounts for 100% of all abortions, too.

So if being gay is bad because it spreads AIDS, then being straight is bad because it causes abortions.

[Jake2008]

Well, statistics aside, increases are alarming, and my point was, right in everybody's back yard, no portion of the population is exempt.

That it is not restricted to homosexuals, was the simple point I was trying to make to the original poster.

I don't think it would make a dent anyway.

[inthebox]

and without even having to quote the CDC, 100% of all unplanned pregnancies are between heterosexual couples. That accounts for 100% of all abortions, too.

So if being gay is bad because it spreads AIDS, then being straight is bad because it causes abortions.

Ahhh... but is not abortion a "choice." And that choice could and should be made for LIFE.
Are you implying that homosexual acts are choices?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Another thing, in my post you are referring to, there is no moralizing about sexual preference.

Even the CDC does not use the term homosexuals or heterosexuals but MSM [men having sex with men ].

And yes statistics are based on facts, not opinions.






G&P

[Jlesnik33]

People that are gay are born gay, people who are retarted are born that way, and do you do you tell your children people with special needs is a wrong way of life. If you fell in love with someone and your mother or father told you not to marry them because they don't like them would that bother you? Your not involved in someone's love life to care weather they want to marry each other or not. Gay people are just like everyone else they sleep eat work cry laugh love and everything else. So why be against them? Why point fingers. Its not a big issue