[tomder55]

Nearly half the respondents in a survey of U.S. primary care physicians said that they would seriously consider getting out of the medical business within the next three years if they had an alternative.
The survey, released this week by the Physicians' Foundation, which promotes better doctor-patient relationships, sought to find the reasons for an identified exodus among family doctors and internists, widely known as the backbone of the health industry.
A U.S. shortage of 35,000 to 40,000 primary care physicians by 2025 was predicted at last week's American Medical Association annual meeting.
In the survey, the foundation sent questionnaires to more than 270,000 primary care doctors and more than 50,000 specialists nationwide.
Of the 12,000 respondents, 49 percent said they'd consider leaving medicine. Many said they are overwhelmed with their practices, not because they have too many patients, but because there's too much red tape generated from insurance companies and government agencies.
And if that many physicians stopped practicing, that could be devastating to the health care industry.
"We couldn't survive that," says Dr. Walker Ray, vice president of the Physicians Foundation. "We are only producing in this country a thousand to two thousand primary doctors to replace them. Medical students are not choosing primary care."
Dr. Alan Pocinki has been practicing medicine for 17 years. He began his career around the same time insurance companies were turning to the PPO and HMO models. So he was a little shocked when he began spending more time on paperwork than patients and found he was running a small business, instead of a practice. He says it's frustrating.
"I had no business training, as far as how to run a business, or how to evaluate different plans," Pocinki says. "It was a whole brave new world and I had to sort of learn on the fly."
To manage their daily work schedules, many survey respondents reported making changes. With lower reimbursement from insurance companies and the cost of malpractice insurance skyrocketing, these health professionals say it's not worth running a practice and are changing careers. Others say they're going into so-called boutique medicine, in which they charge patients a yearly fee up front and don't take insurance.
And some like Pocinki are limiting the type of insurance they'll take and the number of patients on Medicare and Medicaid. According to the foundation's report, over a third of those surveyed have closed their practices to Medicaid patients and 12 percent have closed their practices to Medicare patients That can leave a lot of patients looking for a doctor.
And as Ray mentioned, med school students are shying away from family medicine. In a survey published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in September, only 2 percent of current medical students plan to take up primary care. That's because these students are wary of the same complaints that are causing existing doctors to flee primary care: hectic clinics, burdensome paperwork and systems that do a poor job of managing patients with chronic illness.
So what to do? Physicians don't have a lot of answers. But doctors say it's time to make some changes, not only in the health care field but also with the insurance industry. And they're looking to the new administration for guidance.
One of President-elect Barack Obama's health care promises is to provide a primary care physician for every American. But some health experts, including Pocinki, are skeptical.
"People who have insurance can't find a doctor, so suddenly we are going to give insurance to a whole bunch of people who haven't had it, without increasing the number of physicians?" he says. "It's going to be a problem."

Half of primary-care doctors in survey would leave medicine - CNN.com

I'm very sure that many doctors will go the John Galt route. Many already have. But I'm sure med school students will be high on the list of recruits for Obama's brown shirt brigade (aka Civilian Corps. )

[excon]

Hello:

I've stayed out of this discussion because I don't know the answer. I only have more questions... Two, really:

1) Right now there are three people involved in YOUR medical care. You, your doctor, and your insurance company. I'm sure the insurance companies are making a pretty penny off YOUR health care expenses. So, why wouldn't it be cheaper for everybody if we threw out one third of the equation? Can't they make enough insuring cars and buying credit swaps? Don't answer that.

2) Ford, GM and Chrysler are going bankrupt because THEY are paying for the health care for millions and millions of people. Seems to me that our big three could compete rather well if they didn't have pay for health care. Since when does health care have to do with cars?? Don't answer that. I'm digressing here.

So, my second question is, why are we doing that? Ok, I know why we USED to do that, but should we do it now?

And, here's a third question... I know, I know. I only said two. But, it was asked at the debates, and I think it has a LOT to do with YOUR answers... Is health care a right?

excon

PS> Yeah, I'm guilty of ripping off a thread... So, sue me.

[tomder55]

We all have no rights that involves rewards from other people. We have no rights that impose obligations on someone else. We have a right to seek health care and the doctor has a right to pursue a career in the field . After that it is a contractual situation. You have the right to act on your behalf . Not to results.


You are right the clerical demands of the bureaucracy of the system and the layers help drive up the costs. You think it would be less in a government run system? I don't .

I knew that someone would eventually bring up employers forced obligations (the big 3 have it worse because they can't say no to union demands for gold plated plans) . I agree ;the employer should not be pegged with the costs . McCain tried to address this problem .

[Alty]

No I do not but have any of you needed surgery to save your life?
Or to see a specialist for a life endangering problem.
It seems to me that it is easy for you to get to the family doctor but from what I have heard once you have a really serious problem you then see the problem.

I have heard many Canadians that said they came to Pittsburgh and other places in the USA for surgery because they were told they could not have their surgery in the necessary time to save their life.

Just a quick post and then I'll leave, I promise. ;)

NoHelp, I live in Canada, and I have had to deal with the health care system we have, and personally, I have to say that I've never had a problem.

Both my parents died of cancer, but not because they didn't get the care they needed.

When my mom was having problems breathing she went to our family doctor, he did some preliminary tests and then sent her to three specialists all within one week. The test results from all the specialists where back to our GP within days. If we didn't have the health care system we did then my mother would have died within months of her diagnosis, instead, she survived for 10 months.

Same with my father. As soon as I convinced him to finally go to the doctor, the very next day he was in the hospital having tests done right before Christmas. The day after Christmas the results were in and the day after that my father was in a private room in the Cross Cancer hospital get the best care available.

I've had to get a CT scan twice in my life. Both times I've only had to wait a week or less to get this test done.

The health care in Canada is great, I've never had a problem with it, and sadly, I've had to rely on it many times.

Just wanted to let you know. :)

Okay, I'll leave now. Good luck with your debate everyone. :)

[twinkiedooter]

The price of health care and the monthly premium is way out of line as to the cost of other things a family needs on a monthly basis. I have no health insurance. I don't want it. If I get sick I rarely go to a doctor. I go only if and when I'm practically dead. As far as me getting any kind of health insurance - I've been quoted such laughably high monthly premiums due to preexisting back problems that I have decided to just skip insurance entirely. I don't take any RX's either so there is no reason for me to see a doctor.

I don't think an average family actually needs any health insurance anyway. If they get ill or in an accident or whatever, they can just pay as they go. How many people end up at a doctor's office because they have a cold? Too many, that's how many. My former co-workers used to go to the doctors all the time for mostly small stuff. If anything they would come back to the office loaded down with more prescriptions to have filled. I'd ask them what's this one for? Oh, that's because my doctor thinks I'm depressed and I need this pill. Oh, I'd ask? You seem pretty okay all the weeks I've worked next to you now all of a sudden you need a pill because you're depressed? Oh, that's what my doctor wants me to take and I'm going to take it regardless, my coworker would answer. Two weeks later my coworker was in outer space to put it mildly and having to go back to the doctor for more space cadet pills.

Sometimes having health insurance is only a blank check to some of the pill crazy prescribing doctors out there who push the latest drug that some pharmaceutical rep had pushed onto him during his last visit. I lived with a pharmaceitical rep for several years and would listen to his spiel he would practice on me for his doctors, and these were some very high priced doctors in Manhattan's upper East Side no less. He pushed Endo of which Percodan and Percoset were some of the products of Endo. This was back in the early 1970's. The rx's were regulated by the DEA back then for these pills.

America is not made of huge metropolis cities but rather more of the one red light small towns with lots of farmlands and nothing and more nothing between each little town. I lived on a semi or 18 wheeler for almost a year and saw this beautiful country for 130,000 miles. Been everywhere at least twice. It's only when you have been in the middle of nowhere in one of these teeny tiny towns do you realize that this is the true America - not the big cities like NY, LA, Chicago, Miami, Jacksonville, Houston, etc. If Mom and Pop Farmer get ill and need a doctor and they go into the nearest town 15 miles from their home to the one red light towns and find that the doctor closed up shop and left, they will be forced to drive 30-50+ miles to a bigger town and hope to find a clinic or doctor still in business. What are they going to do with their now worthless, useless present health insurance policy? Use it to wipe Junior's vomit? Probably. Do you sincerely think that a national health plan would benefit the Farmers? Oh yeah, sure. It will definitely benefit those people living in the big cities as they will at least be able to find a doctor (hopefully) and hope that the doctor's office is on the national health plan. Obviously Altenweg's parents lived in a big city for them to get instant health care. Had they lived in a smaller city or small town, I sincerely doubt they would have received any remarkable care in any remarkable time table.

Also, in Canada, you must be a RESIDENT of Canada so that precludes any Americans from being treated there for free in Canada. If America had the same policy, then all of the illegal aliens would be denied any health care that they presently enjoy courtesy of Uncle Sam.

What is the benefit of paying high monthly premiums for health care when most people don't go to a doctor? Why not put the money into a bank account instead and use the money for when you have to see a doctor - not for every time you have a cold, or something trivial.

Most insurance plans have a copay for a doctor visit and copay on most testing done and copay on prescriptions. The main reason everything costs so much is because the pharmactutical companies can overcharge for pills and get away with it. Most hospitals must overcharge for testing as they have too many patients who use the ER as a local doctor's office and then stiff the hospital for the bill. The price of a hospital room has skyrocketed in the past few years for no other reason than that.

Most hospitals are closing their doors in California and elsewhere as they can't afford to keep treating illegal aliens who don't pay their bills. Also many doctors and hospitals are closing their doors due to lawsuits for any and anything a patient and attorney can dream up. They seem to treat these institutions and people like instant cash registers or lotteries where you win a zillion dollars.

And one more thing... IF we get some kind of national health care... I hope they stop with the Chemtrail spraying of the American populace with the chemicals that cause respiratory problems. A lot of people who have asthma would magically be cured as they won't have the irritants in the air to beathe. The people who have chronic respiratory problems like emphasemia would have far less problems as well. And a lot of the sinus problems would go away as well as we would not be breathing in the poison that is being sprayed on a daily basis by our loving government. Just look up at the planes spraying in those cute little tic tac toe patterns and watch the sprayed white material spread out and blot out the sunshine and wonder why you suddenly have developed a sinus infection or flu like symptoms.

[twinkiedooter]

Hello:

I've stayed outta this discussion because I don't know the answer. I only have more questions.... Two, really:

1) Right now there are three people involved in YOUR medical care. You, your doctor, and your insurance company. I'm sure the insurance companies are making a pretty penny off YOUR health care expenses. So, why wouldn't it be cheaper for everybody if we threw out one third of the equation? Can't they make enough insuring cars and buying credit swaps? Don't answer that.

2) Ford, GM and Chrysler are going bankrupt because THEY are paying for the health care for millions and millions of people. Seems to me that our big three could compete rather well if they didn't have pay for health care. Since when does health care have to do with cars??? Don't answer that. I'm digressing here.

So, my second question is, why are we doing that? Ok, I know why we USED to do that, but should we do it now?

And, here's a third question... I know, I know. I only said two. But, it was asked at the debates, and I think it has a LOT to do with YOUR answers... Is health care a right?

excon

PS> Yeah, I'm guilty of ripping off a thread.... So, sue me.

Yes, Excon, for once I actually agree with you on the throw out the insurance company and keep the baby. They need to stick with insuring cars and homes instead.

The answer to why we do that now and didn't do it in the past? Easy. It makes the insurance companies rich, rich, rich. That's why. Too easy an answer, Ex. Why not ask something hard for once like you usually do. The insurance companies already make a bazillion dollars off the American public with mandatory car insurance. Ok, that I can see. But mandatory health insurance, no. The car insurance is bad enough for the privilege of driving a car which can be a lethal weapon. But health insurance, no.

And no, I don't think health care is a right per se. A lot of people would actually live longer and have better quality of life if they were not hooked on so many rx's that make them sicker or nuttier or whatever. Most rx's actually have such awful side effects that a doctor will happily prescribe you another drug to take to alleviate these side effects.

Also, have you ever noticed that we have a rash of strange TV diseases - stuff we never heard of years ago that you just haffta haffta go to your local pill pusher and demand the latest whatever pill for this new TV disease that you just saw a commercial on TV that you are convinced that you have this disease? Or am I halucinating again??

Ain't going to sue you. Sorry.

[tomder55]

Great points . Doctors these days are being trained to be front end distributors of pharmaceuticals.

[NeedKarma]

great points . Doctors these days are being trained to be front end distributors of pharmaceuticals.

That's the free market at work.

[N0help4u]

I am glad you are not having problems with your health care.
I am like Twink I have no health care. I take care of my own health by taking supplements for my ailments. Like I take hylaronic acid for my joints, magnesium, antioxidents and other things.
I have said for years insurance companies are basically scams.
If it weren't for the insurance companies, fake mal practice suits and the pharmaceutical companies insurance would be a lot more affordable. With the government taking over and people having to have medical coverage it can and most likely will end up eventually like a monopoly that keeps raising prices.
I agree with Tomder, the doctors are not really taught much any more about healing people. Instead they are taught what drugs to push for what symptoms.

[NeedKarma]

What happens if you break your leg?

[N0help4u]

I go to the ER and they fix it and I have a bill that I can pay as little as $5.00/$10.00 a month on.

[NeedKarma]

How do you get a payment plan with no insurance?

[N0help4u]

They never said I had to have insurance for a payment plan.
Our ER's are not suppose to be allowed to turn anybody with a serious to life threatening problem down. Some do though.
When my kids were little I had medicaid and/or I went to clinics that went according to your income for their general practition doctors.

[tomder55]

Excessive litigation and over regulation in Western society has driven the rise of parallel private institutions. Home schooling, private education, the cash economy — all are in their own way miniature expressions of revolt or dissatisifaction with the public system. Maybe one of ultimate ironies of a all-encompassing state is that, as was the case in the old Soviet Union — is that everyone will opt out of it at the very moment when it becomes omnipotent .

[J_9]

AT one time I was not like Twink. I had cancer, sure I paid monthly for my insurance policy, very little actually at the time, but thank GOD I had it. My bill was over a million dollars by the time I was done with all of my treatments and surgeries that lasted over 8 years from beginning to end. All I ended up paying, besides my premiums, was $500 out of pocket.

Sure you can walk into the ER and get payments if you don't have insurance. But what about the millions of dollars I would have had to spend had I not had insurance.

My case is much more common than those who never get ill, or never see doctors. When you get cancer or other more serious illnesses, of course you can't predict them, you can't go to clinics that are based on income. You have to go to specialists. These specialists have paid big bucks to specialize in their field. They deserve to get paid what they are worth.

[tomder55]

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."
Norman Thomas(American Socialist 1948)

[NeedKarma]

Yes tom, we know you are a conservative who is scared of the anything that is not labeled 'conservative'.

[inthebox]

Government health care : here is a thought.

Just about the time Medicare part d was pushed on us at a 700 billion dollar cost over 10 years, and there still is a "donut hole,"
Walmart started offering generics at $4 / month. Other pharmacies followed suit. When I worked at the VA, there was a $8 co-pay for these same generics?!


"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free."

To add to the quotes below ;):)

[N0help4u]

Also another reason I have to really question the pharmaceuticals is
I was watching the NBC news a couple weeks ago and they said that Drs. Have admitted that nearly 45% of the scripts they write are placebo's. SO many of the people that are crying that they have to choose between buying groceries or co-paying for their multiple bottles of pills are being ripped off and that is America.
I really am thankful for people like J_9 that need their coverage that they have it. BUT from what I understand medical coverage should not be so expensive in the first place but they have made it a multiple billion dollar business.
I even learned when I broke 3 bones in my foot and got an $849
bill for the doctor to just look at the x ray and say you have 3 clean breaks. I wish I could charge that much just to look at a picture and say 5 words!
They said they charge people without insurance over double what they charge insurance companies.
Anyway, I say insurance and the charges are a racket and if they were being fair and honest it wouldn't cost so much.

[N0help4u]

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."
Norman Thomas(American Socialist 1948)

Said by a socialist and believed by a conservative. Yeah I would say I who am more a libertarian have to agree with Tomder.