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excon · Jun 15, 2006, 06:31 AM

Hello:

I don't drink coffee. It has caffeine in it. I am opposed to drug use. I work in a coffee shop. Should I be able to refuse to serve coffee to my customers on moral grounds?

excon

J_9 · Jun 15, 2006, 06:39 AM

Not on moral grounds, just on coffee grounds, LOL.

But anyway in my opinion I would have to say no because if this is against your beliefs then you should not be working there.

Prostitution is against my beliefs, therefore I do not work in a brothel.

You know more about most legalities than I do, but would this be more of a moral issue than political?

Just my opinion.

Northwind_Dagas · Jun 15, 2006, 06:55 AM

Sure! You can refuse to serve coffee. And the coffee shop can refuse to employee you.

At will employment allows an employeer to fire you for any reason other than discrimination against a goverment protected group.

RickJ · Jun 15, 2006, 07:06 AM

As a side note, I like the pun of "moral grounds" :p

valinors_sorrow · Jun 15, 2006, 05:14 PM

Hmmmm, although I have heard many in the recovery community refer to caffeine as their "drug of choice", I am unclear if it lists as an actual drug? And while you're at it excon, check the labels in your medicine cabinet since caffeine tends to wander into all kinds of pain relief and your pantry as it infiltrates all sorts of food and beverages. Doesn't that just grind you? :rolleyes: I think the caffeine lobbyists must have taken lessons from the sugar lobbyists, but now I digress!

Fr_Chuck · Jun 15, 2006, 05:49 PM

I had the coffee at Hardee this morning, I wish someone had refused it to me

educatedhorse_2005 · Jun 15, 2006, 07:27 PM

If you don't drink it. You shouldn't be pedaling it.

Stormy69 · Jun 16, 2006, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

I don't drink coffee. It has caffeine in it. I am opposed to drug use. I work in a coffee shop. Should I be able to refuse to serve coffee to my customers on moral grounds?

excon

Didn't I read in another thread that you have a prescription for medical marijuana?

I agree with the others, You should find another place to work, perhaps a headshop

excon · Jun 16, 2006, 08:40 AM

Hello again, all:

You should forgive me. I don't work in a coffee shop, I love coffee and have been known to use a drug or two. I didn't mean to deceive. I posed the question the way I did, to find out whether you thought someone (anyone - a pharmacist perhaps) could refuse to serve a customer because of one's own personal beliefs. I could have asked that question, but I think I got a different response by asking the way I did.

I'm not sure how I feel about the issue. The workplace is not the place for social action. However, a company should not be required to sell a product that the owners don't want to sell - unless the state gives them a license.

The license (given to them by the people of the state), might require them to do the bidding of the people. It might not. I don't know. What should a state issued licenses do? Is a government issued license (issued in YOUR name) a grant of exclusivity? Or, does/should a license require adherence to particular set of government issued directives?

Would you support a state that granted exclusive license (meaning you can't get one) to swimming pool that won't let your kind in?

excon

Stormy69 · Jun 16, 2006, 08:49 AM

Ha ha very clever excon.. LOL I thought you had lost your mind there for a second. Well.. uh never mind.;)

I have a twist to this scenario.. as an EMT I am required/committed to treating the sick and injured. However, I detest, loathe and would rather painfully kill a child molester. Now say a person I KNEW for a fact was guilty of this crime, came to me in need of medical care.. Morally could I refuse to treat him or her? Because I think child molesters should die a painful and horrible death?hmmmmmm

valinors_sorrow · Jun 16, 2006, 04:56 PM

I believe the decision about where to work before you accept the job is where the "social action" conscience should take place much like it should before you spend the money buying a product or before you decide to be involved with something. After the fact hits me as self-centered and prompts me to hand out dog-earred copies of Thoreau's Civil Disobedience. LOL :p

Jonegy · Jun 16, 2006, 06:03 PM

I don't know how it would work over there but over here (UK) a military type (can't remember which dept. :confused: ) refused to do a 3rd tour in Iraq as it was against his morals. The Court Martial did not agree :rolleyes:

shunned · Jun 17, 2006, 07:13 AM

Good point, but grounds for dismissal.

Is this a good example of winning the fight but losing the war?

If anyone wants to make a statement of their moral beliefs and values, they might not want to use their jobs as a vehicle to this end. It may be financially implausable.
Don't we all get paid to do things we'd rather NOT do? Is this a major stressor?

valinors_sorrow · Jun 17, 2006, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by shunned

grounds for dismissal.

LOL Were those decaf or regular grounds? :p
If that wasn't intended, it's even funnier! :D

(sorry, I tried to comment on your post but I am fresh out of rep power)

phillysteakandcheese · Jun 17, 2006, 07:06 PM

Coffee is not a state-regulated substance, so while your individual action of refusing to serve coffee for the reasons cited would be legal, the coffee shop of course could choose to dismiss you since you are unable to perform the basic function of the job.

An EMT - like Stormy - is licensed by the state and legally bound to do their job competently. Refusing to do so would be illegal, and could lead to legal actions against the individual, the ambulance company, and perhaps the state.

The seperation comes by the legal responibilities of the job...

In one case, you get fired.
In the other case, you go to jail.

:cool:

shunned · Jun 18, 2006, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

I believe the decision about where to work before you accept the job is where the "social action" conscience should take place much like it should before you spend the money buying a product or before you decide to be involved with something. After the fact hits me as self-centered and prompts me to hand out dog-earred copies of Thoreau's Civil Disobedience. LOL :p

So for Thoreau's Civil Disobedience your sending us to Bill Gates? :eek:

Grounds are decaf.:o

educatedhorse_2005 · Jun 18, 2006, 01:59 AM

That is not true in stormy's case.
She only has to take care of him on the job if he needs it not off the job.
The state of Wyoming has the good samartian law.
So as an emt you are not required to stop and help if he is in trouble on the side of the road or his house.
You only have to take care of him while on the job.

talaniman · Jun 18, 2006, 05:00 AM

If you can't put your personal feelings aside and do your job then your fired plain and simple.

valinors_sorrow · Jun 18, 2006, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by shunned

So for Thoreau's Civil Disobedience your sending us to Bill Gates? :eek:

Grounds are decaf.:o

Hmmmm I don't know what happened with that link :confused:
So sorry!

(... shrugs)

Cassie · Jun 18, 2006, 06:47 AM

So you are saying if you owned your own pharmacy, should you be required to sell all medications. Such as birth control if you do not believe in it. Refusal to sell something because of your beliefs, (something legal of course)
In a business that sells those products is no different than a certain religion or government pushing their belief system on you. The big question is where is the line drawn between asserting our rights versus infringing on others rights.