[vso]

My 92' DX today decided to stop priming its fuel pump. I normally always start the car with a pause at the ON position. So I knew when I didn't hear my fuel pump; there was no point in starting.

So for the rest of the day I probably tried 20 times turning the ignition to the ON position, and of those tries the fuel pump primed for 3 of them. The first time it primed was after dissconnecting and connecting the fuel pump connector, I thought it was fixed after that, but I think now it was pure coincidence that it happened. The second time, it decided to prime, but I hadn't touched anything; the car started but then died. The third time it primed, I started the car with no problems. Then I turned the car off and tried to ON position, no prime, CEL goes off after 2 secs... I hear a click, but the CEL comes back on. This occurred the next 2-3 tries, and then it went to a solid CEL that doesn't go off. During the day, most of the tries it was a solid CEL; with a few times the CEL went off, not sure about the click.

My car came with these poorly cut keys, it takes me forever to turn the ignition.. I'm wondering if this has anything to do with it. Can a bad key break the ignition switch? Its hard to answer your three questions since my problem seems to be intermittent?

I had an extra ECU at hand to try, but it didn't make any difference.

My cars been a storage car for 6months probably; it had no problems starting throughout that time... the last time I started it with no problems before today's occurrence was only 5 days ago.

Im really frustrated as to why this has SUDDENLy occured; and the only thing I can think of is during the last few days, is the weather, its been cold at night and warm during the day; my car fogs up in the inside so moisture is was forming.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Read sections A and B in the linke below:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...ics-46563.html


Run the K-Test first. Then, try replacing the main relay. Keep me posted.

[vso]

Yea I've read those already.

I forgot to add that, my is parked outside, after the post I made, I went outside to give II position a try again, it was around 1-2'C; the fuel pump primed... Did it again and the pump primed again..

Today in the afternoon I tried, same problem, no prime...

This evening again with near freezing temps, tried II position twice and it primed both times..

I wonder if its to do with what's in my gas tank... (the needles just above empty) moisture is developing in the day because its warmer.. maybe 7C?

[daredeezy619]

I finally solved the problem, after 2-1/2 weeks of working on the car. All of the above symptoms were caused by the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor. The ECM uses the MAP Sensor (transducer) to control fuel delivery and ignition timing. I turned the ignition on, disconnected the MAP connector, and used my DMM to check the reference and signal voltages (4.94v). Suddenly, when I went to record the readings, the fuel pump started to run. It blew me away! I got the fire extinguisher ready, just in case something weird was about to happen. When I pushed the clutch in and turned the ignition to start, it fired right up and ran beautifully. Therefore, the "Key Step" is to wait several minutes after you disconnect a sensor wire to see if the "Check Engine Light" goes out.

It's scary how vulnerable our cars are today. So much for Honda/Japanese reliability. As far as I'm concerned, this is poor engineering because MAP sensor failure is catastrophic--you lose both your ignition and fuel system. Failure to properly diagnose a faulty MAP sensor can easily lead you down a path that causes you to replace your main relay, ICM, coil, distributor, and ECM. This is the "Achilles Heel" of Honda Civics from this generation. Shame on Honda for not designing a more fault-tolerant system. A new MAP sensor from Honda, which is about 1" x 1" x 1-1/2", costs around $350.

CroCivic91, I'm glad you responded. I see you are from Zagreb. My wife served in the Bosnian War in Sarajevo and Zagreb, from 1993 through 1996. She used to wear a Kevlar vest, as she went down "Sniper's Alley" in Sarajevo. She's the only woman in the Air Force to receive the Air Combat Medal, for flying 14 combat missions over Bosnia. She would fly from Rhein-Mein AB, Germany. One of her not so fond memories was doing a "combat" takeoff from Sarajevo, under enemy fire. Gutsy lady.

I had the same problem. I was installing a stock air filter for my b16a engine and I accidentally unplugged one of the hoses that go to the MAP sensor. The thing was it was sputtering and I couldn't figure out the problem, after a day of sputtering the engine now didn't start. It would turn over but it wouldn't start. So I finally found out it was the map sensor and I plugged the hose in, and reset the ecm, but the car still won't start. I think I had the hose off to the map sensor too long and I don't know if its not getting fuel or not. So now that I have the MAP sensor on the car still won't start, do I have to unplug the MAP sensor and plug it back in?

[TxGreaseMonkey]

daredeezy619, read sections A and B in the link below:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...ics-46563.html

Hopefully, it will help you solve your problem.

[maisma]

Hi there, I came across this post looking for a fix to the same problem, I've tried just about everything mentioned in the last 7 pages with no luck.

Here's the situation:
Engine is a d16z6, ecu is p28.
Engine cranks but will not start, plugs are getting NO spark.
When I turn the key to "on" the check engine light comes on, and stays on, as well as the oil and battery lights.
I tried measuring the voltage between the right wire in the map señor and ground, its getting 8volts, which I see is far above what it should be getting. The other two wires in the map plug have 8 volts as well - Im sure this isn't good.
I don't hear ANY clicking of relays and what not - that I know of anyway, though I'm not sure 100% what its supposed to sound like.
One other weird thing to note, the main lights in the cluster (the ones behind the speedo and tach) will not work, but that same cluster works in a friends car, so its not the bulbs.
Also, when I jumper the cel connector, I don't get any codes, the light just stays on like usual.

Parts status:
My ecu is known good - it runs a friends car fine. I'v replaced the main relay, and checked all the underdash fuses, as well as the fuses in the engine bay.

I have really run out of things to do/check. If anyone here has any other suggestions I would be extremely grateful.

[3y3Ba11]

Hi. I have a 1993 honda civic si. Now I was driving on the highway when my battery light went on. Fine I know I was having battery issues(low battery, due to alt needing replaced)
So I was on my way to the shop( to replace the Alt) and just then car seemed to have stalled. So while I was still moving I tried to "bomb start" by releasing the clutch. But all that happened was dash lights went extra bright.
Now I towed it to the shop, changed the alt, but now my acg fuse kept on blowing, after 1.5 day's I finally solved that problem(by removeing the condenser plug(a/c)) that solved the acg(s) fuse blowing, but now the Ecu fuse keeps blowing when I switch the key to II.
Ok now at this point the car is bare bones naked I have the wiring harness from inside fully in my lap checking for continuity(second time) I also checked + changed the engine harness, and this problem keeps on happening. Re: ECU(under hood fuse continual breaking)

Things I've changed already:
Alt, ignition switch, under hood fuse box, under dash fuse box, engine harness, orange junction(due to broken wires).
Rear of the car is not connected, engine harness is not connected, starter sol is not connected. Pw mirrors are not connected, only power going to the main relay is from the yellow wire(12.65v).
Opened up the ecu, and there's no burnt smell, nor any evidence of burned board/connection.
Cannot see if the service engine light goes off, but as I remember the light stayed on.
Now also the main relay only clicks if I turn to start position,
Engine turns over, no fuel pump sound no nothing. Grrrrrr. I've been at this for 6 day's so far, no one wants to help me(but I understand)
Is it time that I changed the ecu?
Please help me.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

3y3Ba11, my bet is the ECM is bad. Run the K-Test below:

The K-Test: Remove the MAP Sensor connector and turn the ignition switch to ON (not start). Using a multimeter, check for 5 volts going between the MAP Sensor connector's reference wire (+) and ground. As you look at the connector, this is the socket on the right. Really press the black test lead into a cleaned main ECM ground on the thermostat housing. If the voltage is low, it's probably indicating ECM failure. Most failed ECMs will record a fraction of a volt.

If that doesn't pinpoint the problem, run through the diagnostic tests in sections A and B below:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post219451

If the problem is still elusive, run through the tests below:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post358044

The ECM fuse keeps blowing, because the ECM is shorting out internally. If the ECM is not working properly, your main relay won't work properly, either. Everything is downhill from there.

[3y3Ba11]

I guess that I forgot to mention that "I performed "all those test's"". Sorry.
ok now today I replaced the "ecu"(computer) with a non known working one(lol), but to my surprise the ecu fuse no longer breaks/shorts, but no crank(grrrrrrrr). Maybe just maybe I just forgot to hook up something, or wrong plug in wrong slot (engine harness).
The reason that I didn't change the "puter" was my pro honda friend told me that "it's not the computer that it's 2(or more) wires fused together, but after x3 continuity test + replace engine harness, and with nothing else connected except the ecu, he went to get me an ecu.
Also hmmmmmmm may this ecu's messed up also, because again I can't hear the fuel pump activate when ignition key in II position.
BTW re: ECM- is that also known as ECU/Computer?
Thanks for your great help

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Yes.

If the CEL stays on, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Pos. II), then the problem is with the fuses, ECM, main relay, or ignition switch. Are you certain your main relay is good?

[3y3Ba11]

Is there a way to resolder the board of th ecm? I know the main relay you can.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

The ECMs on Civics experience leaking capacitors, fried microprocessors, blown resistors, and a host of electron migration problems. I don't know how to troubleshoot and repair them. My recommendation is to buy a remanufactured ECM, with a lifetime warranty.

[3y3Ba11]

Whoa now I hooked everything back up and put the dash in, now there's only an SRS light. Nothing else +still won't crank. With the non ecu fuse blowing computer. Grrrrrrrrrr.
Any help please?

[3y3Ba11]

Hi me again; now my car started by changing the computer(ECU), I just forgot to put all the fuses back in.
Now it's from an automatic si civic, and the cel stays on , and give error code 19.
Is that only because my car is 5speed, and the ecu' from an auto?

[TxGreaseMonkey]

That's a likely possibility.

[Shady Tree Mech]

Hello,
I am having a similar problem with my 1992 Honda Civic EX 4 Door with a 1.6L engine and manual transmission. This link has been extremely helpful in troubleshooting' this issue.

Symptoms:
1. Intermittently will not start -- no fuel, no spark
a. CEL stays on
b. Main Relay does not click
c. Fuel pump does not cycle
d. When the car does start a,b, and c are not true.

Testing:
1. K-Test
a. When CEL remains lit, no relay, no fuel pump cycle
- No / minimal voltage to MAP sensor
b. When CEL does not remain lit and the relay clicks' and fuel pump cycles
- 4.96 Volts to MAP sensor
2. Main Relay
a. passes all tests per Chilton's manual (x2) using car's battery direct as source
3. K-Test Verification
a. When CEL remains lit, no relay, no fuel pump cycle
- removed the connector for the "D" harness from the ECU/ECM
- turned key to "on" position
- looking straight on at the ECU/ECM socket measured the voltage on pins 19 (+) and 21 (-) or the 8th and 10th pin from the right on the bottom row of pins, measure no / minimal voltage.
b. When CEL does not remain lit and the relay clicks' and fuel pump cycles
- Same results as a. -- no / minimal voltage between pins 19 and 21

Observation:
1. looking at wiring harness for the "D" connector, there is not an actual wire in what would be pin 19.

Question:
1. Is my testing procedure correct
a. should I purchase the "test connector that provides in line test points for these pin positions
b. Am I counting the Pins correctly
2. Are the correct test positions on the 1992 honda pins 19 and 21 or are they different for this model year.
a. I have looked for connector info in my Chilton's manual but have not been able to find it.

[LSVTECAL]

1993 honda civic dx--122,000 miles

symptoms

engine cranks but will not start. The “check engine light” (mil) stays on, along with the oil and battery lights. When the service check connector terminals were jumped, the mil did not indicate any diagnostic trouble codes. You hear the first click from the main relay’s first relay, but not the second and third click from the main relay’s second relay. You do not hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds, as you normally do. Additionally, there is no spark at the plugs.

work performed

i replaced the main relay with a new mitsuba rz-0159, because of the age of the vehicle and knowing they are problematic. It made no difference. When i jumped the 5th and 7th terminals on the main relay connector, i could hear the fuel pump run.

Using a digital multi-meter, all under-hood and under-dash fuses were determined to be good. The battery is 2 months old and fine. Turning the ignition on and individually disconnecting the 3p connector of the map sensor and the throttle position (tp) sensor did not cause the mil to go out.

I disconnected the pgm-fi main relay connector. I checked for continuity between blk terminal 2 and body ground. There was continuity. I measured the voltage between yel/wht terminal 1 and body ground (12.52v). Next, i turned the ignition switch on and measured the voltage between blk/yel terminal 5 and body ground (12.52v). Continuity was also fine between grn/yel main relay terminal 8 and ecm a7, a8, individually. The ecm grounding terminal on the thermostat was removed and cleaned, just to be safe.

Since there was no spark, i installed a new icm (igniter)—g.p. Sorensen, part no. 115070; coil—oem, tec, part no. 30510-pt2-006; and rotor—borg warner, part no. D712. After installing these parts, there still was no spark. I suspect this model honda will not spark, if the “check engine light” stays on and there is a power or grounding issue with the ecm. A new honda distributor housing was installed 20,000 miles ago, therefore i don’t suspect bad ckp, cyl, or tdc sensors. I confirmed 12.4v going from the ignition switch to the distributor. Distributor wiring and electrical readings checked out fine.

conclusion

i suspect the ecm is either not receiving power or there’s a control grounding issue involving main relay terminal 8 (to ecm a7, a8). The ecm controls the second relay, by applying or removing ground to main relay terminal 8. It’s possible the ecm is bad, but i understand this is not likely on hondas. I request your help in solving this difficult problem. Thanks in advance.

Hello everyone I have the same prob and did everything that was said here and still no spark or any fuel...
What could it be?

[LSVTECAL]

I neede to know if anything I need to check besides ecu,main relay,new distributor, all fuses changed, new plugs, plug wires, cap and rotor, all relays changed that have to do with car...
Still nothing
Should I just burn it and call it a day...
God please help me!!

[TxGreaseMonkey]

LSVTECAL, does your Check Engine Light stay on, when you turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II)? If so, perform the K-Test on the ECM:

The K-Test: Remove the MAP Sensor connector and turn the ignition switch to ON (not start). Using a multimeter, check for 5 volts going between the MAP Sensor connector's reference wire (+) and ground. As you look at the connector, this is the socket on the right. Really press the black test lead into a cleaned main ECM ground on the thermostat housing. If the voltage is low, it's probably indicating ECM failure. Most failed ECMs will record a fraction of a volt. To me, the K-Test is simple, elegant, and accurate.

You really should start your own posting, by clicking the button "Ask About Cars & Trucks." If you do that, I'll be able get your car running shortly and your prayer will be answered.

[LSVTECAL]

1993 honda civic dx hatchback.car will not start!
I changed main relay
Fuelpump
Distributor
Ecu
And still won't start
Don't know
And sinking fast
Don't know what else to put in it
Please help
Now the fuel pump kicks on but no spark