[Galveston1]

Jesus gave a vivid description of Hell.

As to absolute truth:

Rejecting any absolute truth is roughly equivalent to attempting to build a house without any standard of measurement or a level. Sure, you could use a knotted string, but nothing you put together would be standard and you will not be able to install bathroom fixtures and other items because they will not fit.

Or rejecting any standard of truth is like trying to cross the ocean in a boat with no compass, sextant, or any other means of navigation. You may wind up somewhere other than the bottom of the ocean, but who knows where?

What you are talking about is spiritual anarchy. Anarchy in any form is a bad thing.

[Galveston1]

If you do have scripture you would be getting it from the New Testament. Which was written several hundred years after Christianity was formed. So that wouldn't be evidence for Christianity had it in the beginning.

I'll look it up and get back with you on a source.

You have made that claim about the New Testament being written several hundred years after Christianity was formed many times before.

There is absolutely NO evidence of such being the case.

Revelation was written circa 96 AD and it was the LAST NT book written.

I doubt this will stop you from making that claim though. As Cred would say, "where is your OSE for that claim"?

[michealb]

I'll tell you what I'll drop that point for this thread since it really doesn't have much to do with the topic and I know regardless of how much evidence I have it won't convince you otherwise.

[Credendovidis]

Cred, You refuse to even consider you may be WRONG. Let me ask you this... what IF you are wrong. What if there is a God... what happens then?

classyT : note that your comment refers to my post #30 to Altenweg , in which I DID NOT CLAIM ANYTHING !

All I did was review recent communications on this board and reflect on them.
So how may I be wrong then ?

I do not claim that an entity/diety exists some people call "God".
I do not claim that this entity/deity has supranatural powers.
I do not claim that I can prove the existence of this entity/deity.
I do not claim that I can prove the non-existence of this entity/deity.

All I stated was :

Spot on Alty !!! You clearly stated that you BELIEVE that, and what you BELIEVE should always be respected !

But not with Tj3, who intolerantly refuses to accept that other people have other ideas about "God", and that these other ideas have identical validity to the idea Tommy has himself.

That is : untill someone can provide OSE for any specific idea claim on "God".
But that OSE will never be forthcoming, as it does not exist.
Next to that : belief and OSE are impossible to match anyway.

Tommy BELIEVES in his Christian version of "God", no problem.
You BELIEVE in your Deist version of "God". No problem neither.
But Tommy claims that what he BELIEVES is "true", "true" as in factual.
But when Tommy is asked to support his BELIEF, and is asked to why his views are more valid than your version or any other version, Tommy can only come up with some pseudo OSE by using arguments based on evolution, and than suggest that it is OSE for his views on "God".

Of course that is not correct. He knows it, you know it, I know it, almost everyone here knows it.
The only proof for the existence of "God" is direct OSE for the existence of "God"
The only proof for the Christian version of "God" is direct OSE for the Christian version of "God".
NOTHING ELSE WILL DO!!

Only Tommy refuses to accept that. Tommy's idea of "true" and "truth" seems to be quite different to the ideas of those who live with ratio, logic, knowledge, understanding, and tolerance.

For any intelligent person the words "true" or "truth" refer to the property of being in accordance with the actual state of affairs.
And as the word "actual" refers to reality, it should refer to OSE as its only guideline.

Unfortunately in the religious field the words "true" or "truth" are used in and out of season to SUGGEST a level of accuracy, and in effect are used to provide some BOGUS VALIDITY to personal interpretations that are at best only covered by Subjective Supported Evidence.

You accept your views as BELIEF. You respect other (and others) views.
Tommy however insists intolerantly that his views are factual, refuses to accept that other ideas are of equal validity, and seems to be ashamed for what he only can BELIEVE but can not can provide OSE for.

What a nice display of the difference between the linguistic meaning and the religious unsupported interpretation of the words "true" or "truth"!!

===

You post : "what IF you are wrong. What if their is a God...what happens then?"

That refers to Pascal's wager. But that wager has already many years ago been shown to be invalid, and actually turned itself against Christianity and any other specific religion.

What IF there is no "God" at all?
What IF the only supra-natural deity is "Allah" ?
What IF the only supra-natural deity is "Lord Shiva" ?
What IF the only supra-natural deity is "the "Invisible Unicorn" ?
What IF the only supra-natural deity is "the Flying Spaghetti Monster" ?
Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

How would such a deity react to people who refused or failed to BELIEVE in him/her/it ?
You KNOW or could have known (you could have googled) about "Allah", about "Lord Shiva", about the "Invisible Unicorn", about the "Flying Spaghetti Monster", etc.

You insist that the entity/deity called "God" exist, but you can not OSE the existence of that entity at all.
You do your best to provide all kinds of bogus argumentation to provide the illusion that such an entity/deity exists.
All you (and Tj3) have is lot's of hot-aired wild claims.

WHY DON'T YOU SKIP THE BS AND EITHER PROVE YOUR CLAIMS, OR ADMIT THAT ALL YOU CAN DO IS BELIEVE ???

As per the topic : it seems to me that you yourself have no idea what is "TRUE" or the "TRUTH"!!

:D :rolleyes: :p :) :rolleyes: :D

.

.

[classyT]

Cred,

I have already told you I can't prove anything to you. I can tell you that I believe it to my core but I don't have to prove it. It takes faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God, you must believe that he IS. We have given you food for thought but you refuse in even consider it. That is fine. I don't care.

But here IS some truth for YOU... I don't much care what it seems to YOU. Don't like my so called hot air? Don't read my posts. There is a verse in the Bible that sums you up pretty good.
It goes something like this.. professing themselves wise they became as fools. I didn't call you a fool... I'm too shy to do that. GOD did.

And incidentally.. I get sick of you calling people intolerant. Look the word up Cred. Your pic is right beside it.

[marriaget]

Why do so many people think... abortion is 100% wrong. And contraceptives are wrong.
And all of those rules and stuff. It's because your parents grow you guys up with this stuff, and fill your head with it, and you get SO used to it, that you think it's 100% facts and true. Nothing is proven, there is NO proof that there is a god or anything etc. It just amazes me all these rules and religions, and stuff. Jeez. It's the u.s have a free happy life. Believe in god, but why all these huge rules and big beliefs, fundamentalists annoy me.

[classyT]

Marriaget,

Because I have a relationship with the Lord Jesus. I don't with Mary and I never claimed to. You are right. I cannot PROVE to you anything but if you read some of these posts AND some of tj3's posts on other threads, You will get a LOT of compelling evidence.

I believe the JEW for one is compelling evidence that GOD does exsists AND that the Bible it TRUTH.

[marriaget]

I changed my comment... it's different now.

[Tj3]

Fair enough.

Starting with that basis, your next argument falls apart.

This is not a logical argument. By what means did "god" accomplish any of these things? If you cannot answer in detail how god did these things, then it is you who have no argument.

I don't have to. If there are only two ways for something to happen and one is impossible, then the other is true.

Science DOES have explanations for all the things you list.

Then why, in the past couple of years, can no one answer any of these questions on two different boards?

[Tj3]

Cred,

You refuse to even consider you may be WRONG. Let me ask you this...what IF you are wrong. What if their is a God...what happens then?

Good question!!

[Tj3]

Cred,

I have already told you I can't prove anything to you. I can tell you that I believe it to my core but I don't have to prove it. It takes faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God, you must believe that he IS. We have given you food for thought but you refuse in even consider it. That is fine. I don't care.

But here IS some truth for YOU... I don't much care what it seems to YOU. Don't like my so called hot air? Don't read my posts. There is a verse in the Bible that sums you up pretty good.
It goes something like this.. professing themselves wise they became as fools. I didn't call you a fool... I'm too shy to do that. GOD did.

Right on!!

I have never, not once, in all the years that I have known Cred, see him validate or prove his belief that there is no God. He avoids it like the plague.

and incidentally.. I get sick of you calling people intolerant. Look the word up Cred. Your pic is right beside it.

Absolutely!!

[Tj3]

why do so many people think.......abortion is 100% wrong.

Because I believe that murder, no matter who it is or how old, is a criminal act.

[marriaget]

Then we are wrong. What if the true god is Zeus then we are all wrong. Man has thought of so many religions in the time we have been here how can you dismiss any of them without dismissing all of them.

So I don't live my life in fear of ifs there are just to many.

Besides if you read the history of heaven and hell in Christianity you find that it is was only added when Christianity started to loose favor when other religions at the time offered that service. So I find it really hard to fear something that got added on as value added service to Christianity when it loosing favor. That's just me though.

I totally agree.

[marriaget]

Because I believe that murder, no matter who it is or how old, is a criminal act.

It's not alive yet, it doesn't have a brain or anything.

Like common, so what if a 14 year old gets pregnant? She is in risk of death, and so is the baby.What in the world will she do?
What if you get pregnant each time you have sex? You want 15 babies that you cannot support?

[marriaget]

It would REALLY suck, if there was no god or anything & when we die... we're gone... all these years of believing and all that crap we did for god, will be for nothing...

I'm not saying I don't believe in him, don't get me wrong.

[JoeT777]

why do so many people think.......abortion is 100% wrong. and contraceptives are wrong.

Abortion is wrong because it kills the most innocent of mankind; which is true whether you believe in the facts of God. While some claim that women’s rights need to be protected, who protects the rights of the unborn to be birthed?

and all of those rules n stuff. It's because your parents grow you guys up with this stuff, and fill ur head with it, and you get SO used to it, that you think it's 100% facts n true. Nothing is proven, there is NO proof that there is a god or anything etc. It just amazes me all these rules n religions, and stuff. jeez. it's the u.s have a free happy life. believe in god, but why all these huge rules and big beliefs, fundamentalists annoy me.

So today "to be happy" we kill the unborn, what’s for tomorrow? Do we kill hormonal driven teenagers, maybe the hangers-on 20 something's who don’t know when to move out of the house, maybe the feeble, how about the old folks? Heck, why don’t we go just go around and abort people we don’t like.

JoeT

[Tj3]

it's not alive yet, it doesn't have a brain or anything.

Talk to a doctor. You would learn a lot about a fetus.

Fetal development: What happens during the first trimester? - MayoClinic.com

What if you get pregnant each time you have sex? You want 15 babies that you cannot support?

No one said that preventing pregnancy was wrong. Murdering babies is.

[classyT]

it's not alive yet, it doesnt have a brain or anything.

Like common, so what if a 14 year old gets pregnant? She is in risk of death, and so is the baby.What in the world will she do?
What if you get pregnant each time you have sex? You want 15 babies that you cannot support?

Obviously you are interested in what God hs to say or you wouldn't be in this thread. Exodus 21 vs. 22-23 Under the law, God said that if someone caused a woman to lose her baby ( by unnatural causes) that they too should lose their life.read it

Of course there are other circumstances such as health to the Mother to take into consideration. But if it is for the matter of convience. It is murder. That is NOT a popular opinion and it isn't mine.. it is GOD's.

[marriaget]

I'm not going to read that, I don't believe god wrote the bible.

I just believe there is someone up there looking down on me, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

All right, I don't like the fact that you're killing something that can become a life... but still...

Think about it, if you are in NO shape at all to have a baby, and you have no money or whatever... how could you have a baby? Having a baby should be a beautiful thing, you should be prepared. & if you're in 8th grade and pregnant, what in the world will you DOOOO?

Im talking about, some religions don't believe in contraceptives.
That is... wow not cool to me.

[marriaget]

I'm not going to read that, I don't believe god wrote the bible.

I just believe there is someone up there looking down on me, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

All right, I don't like the fact that you're killing something that can become a life... but still...

Think about it, if you are in NO shape at all to have a baby, and you have no money or whatever... how could you have a baby? Having a baby should be a beautiful thing, you should be prepared. & if you're in 8th grade and pregnant, what in the world will you DOOOO?

Im talking about, some religions don't believe in contraceptives.
That is... wow not cool to me.