[TexasParent]

They know by the laws of the country that murder is wrong and IS punished so that argument really doesn't hold up
That is like saying a drunk driver should get away with killing somebody because they couldn't help it.
Nobody wants to be held accountable because they always have their excuses

Psychopaths don't have excuses... lol... they have no sense of right and wrong; internally or even if they've been taught, it doesn't register, they are motivated by faulty wiring in the brain towards some goal or desire that is criminal or evil by the rest of societies standards. Yet do they sin since they are not capable of guilt, remorse, empathy, etc.

Since so far most have suggested that God, or the person, sees what is in their heart and it is their selfish intent at the expense of another; or at the expense of themselves which largely determines sin or in the case of a religious person once they know sin as it is expressed in the bible and then behave contrary to the bibles suggestions not to they have sinned. In all cases it's been suggested that it is the selfawareness of sin as defined by our upbringing or teaching or internal moral compass which determines what sin is to the individual.

However, a psychopath has no such awareness; so the question again, do they sin?

P.S. For those that have just joined this thread read the OP. Right now a few of us are trying to determine what the definition of sin should be for the sake
of this discussion.

[Wondergirl]

We still don't know what sin is and who defines it.

Is the definition of sin
1. dependent on the individual
2. dependent on the culture/society
3. dependent on the historical time
4. dependent on the family
5. dependent on the religion
6. dependent on the situation
7. absolute, no matter what
__________________

[TexasParent]

We still don't know what sin is and who defines it.

Is the definition of sin
1. dependent on the individual
2. dependent on the culture/society
3. dependent on the historical time period
4. dependent on the family
5. dependent on the religion
6. dependent on the situation
7. absolute, no matter what
__________________

Let's start with a definition from a dictionary. This is taken from Merriam-Webster Online:

Main Entry: sin
Pronunciation: \ˈsin\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is — more at is
Date: before 12th century
1 a: an offense against religious or moral law b: an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food> c: an often serious shortcoming : fault
2 a: transgression of the law of God b: a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

[N0help4u]

The point is they know it is wrong by the laws of the land and has consequences even if they do not have any comprehension of right and wrong.
They still go out and do the crime.
The OP's question is justifiable sin. How can psychopaths be justified simply because they do not see it as sin or wrong?
So I say it is also has to include that if you murder somebody through drunk driving or serial killer mentality you do not get off the hook simply because you do not see what you did as wrong.

[N0help4u]

Let's start with a definition from a dictionary. This is taken from Merriam-Webster Online:

taking your own definition:
1 a: an offense against religious or moral law
a pschopath is offending a moral and legal law of the land even though he can not comprehend that.

b: an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food> c: an often serious shortcoming : fault
It is highly reprehensible to murder does murdering without a conscience therefore make the murder okay and the murderer off the hook for the consequences?
A sin to waste food... but not a sin to kill?

2 a: transgression of the law of God b: a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God
definitely a Christian definition of sin which has been stated throughout this post that is not what is being asked.

[TexasParent]

The point is they know it is wrong and has consequences even if they do not have any comprehension of right and wrong.
They still go out and do the crime.
The OP's question is justifiable sin. How can psychopaths be justified simply because they do not see it as sin or wrong?
So I say it is also has to include that if you murder somebody through drunk driving or serial killer mentality you do not get off the hook simply because you do not see what you did as wrong.

Actually my point with Psychopaths is to try and determine if there is such a thing as sin? Since some members of this discussion including myself think that sin is determined from within each individual depending on a number of different influences including culture, religion or lack there of (type of religion), parental influences, adult reasoning, and feeling of guilt, remorse, etc. If the Psychopaths influences have not given him the internal barometer of sin. Does sin exist apart from what we imagine it to be?

[N0help4u]

I would have to say imagine a society where there were NO moral standards, no laws, no consequences for killing anybody or any standards. Where everybody had a psychopath mentality. None of it would be sin because there is no such thing. What would you have but a bunch of soulless people that are not concerned about humanity? So is sin a good concept or a bad concept? Is it something we can live without? If there is no sin should we let everybody out of jail?
How far do we want to take the idea of no sin? Would we have laws? Could we have laws? Why would we have laws if there is no such thing as sin?

Just looking at it from the other extreme

[TexasParent]

Have we determined what sin is yet? So that we can answer the OP questions of:

When is it okay to sin?

When is sin justifiable for the cause of the "greater good"?


My problem is, the OP has not defined what he means by sin. Hence the discussion of what sin is, or isn't.

[helloeverybody]

I suppose you'dd simply have to ask 'is it really a sin if it's OK?'