[questionnaire]

I was dating this girl for about 7 months. We fell hard for each other, and were so happy right away. We were inseparable, and neither of us had a problem with that. We spent every day together and both loved it. As time went on, though, she began to tell me how she "missed her friends so much," but just every now and then. But sometimes, it would get to the point where she would just go off and hang out with her friends all night randomly, purposely excluding me. Because I was so used to being with her constantly, I just didn't really get it. I tried to be cool about it, but she could see I wanted to be with her. She was very social in school, student council president, probably the most popular girl in high school, which is where I met her, senior year. She loved hanging out with friends, and I could tell she liked attention, so this just went along with her personality. Because I wasn’t really into all that, it just didn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Anyway, as time went on, she began to feel a bit more distant from time to time, mainly when she missed her friends and when she actually hung out with them. I picked up on this, and I assigned her hanging out with friends as being the thing that would make her more distant. Basically, I held too tight, and I can see that now. I regret it, but nothing I can do about the past now. When she wanted to go out with friends, I got really bummed and sad, which I know now I should have just brushed it off and found something for myself to do for the night. But, there were about 3 occasions in the last 2 months of our relationship where she felt like she needed to end the relationship. However, I always managed to talk her out if it, until this time. She said she needed time to figure herself out again. I acted like a baby, didn't want to let her go, basically did everything wrong. She said it would only be a break, but she needed to work on herself before she could even think about an us. But here I am, the break up is official, and she’s pushed me away hard at various times.

So basically, after the breakup, she went off and hung out with her friends, partied, drank, had a good time all weekend. I pouted by myself, since I literally have 2 friends that I talk to that stayed home and went to community college along with myself. But it gave me a lot of time to be lonely and think, and I realized that she really doesn't know what she wants in life, and that I really needed to back off, give her space and let her enjoy the single life. She missed her friends, and still misses being that social girl she used to be, so I know I need to let her live how she thinks she needs to. However, she made it very clear to me that she wasn’t looking for another guy right now, just trying to enjoy a life without commitment. Something I thought was dumb, but I had to let her go.
First off, I think it's important to know that we both go to the same community college, and we scheduled our classes so they are all at the same times, and we drive together every day. Well that never stopped, and it killed me at first. But I've been much better lately. She’s even recently told me she wants to schedule more classes together next semester so we can keep driving together. It's been about 3 weeks since the breakup. However, during this time, I began to notice random days where she would be really really into me. Last Monday, after hanging out with her friends all weekend and partying, she asked me at school why I hadn't called her all weekend and how she wanted to hang out with me. I told her she was the one that wanted space, and I was going to give her it, because she needed the time. She could tell that I was really getting over her, and this KILLED her. She got instantly very flirty with me and all lovey dovey. We hung out for a bit, and when I said bye to her before I went off to work, she gave me a kiss on the lips, something she wouldn't do last time we hung out. Next day, she’s very distant, acting like the day before didn't even happen. So this made me realize I needed to give her even more space because she was very confused and she was dragging me into the confusion circle.

So these random days have occurred about 3 more times, yesterday being the weirdest. She got dressed up extremely cute for school, and I thought she looked dead sexy. I couldn't keep my eyes off her. She asked me if I thought she was cute, and I told her yes, she was very cute, and she knew I meant it. So we hang out after school, and have more fun than we've had in a long long time. She is flirting with me A LOT, no kissing, but I mean, this girl is flirting hardcore. So I go along with it, flirting back, and she loves it. Then on the way home she asked if I thought she was sexy, and I told her she KNEW I thought that. She asked why I thought she is more sexy now than when we were together, and I just told her I always thought she was, a confusing question to me.
Anyway, basically, we had an awesome day yesterday, but I'm getting familiar with this pattern, and even though she seemed that she wanted to hang out this weekend, I know she will probably not call me all weekend and either go visit her friends at college or hang out with ones around town. However, every time this pattern happens, and she does end up wanting to hang out again eventually, and she seems more and more into me.
Here’s what I’m afraid of: She’s getting the best of both worlds, the single life, and attention from me. She might see that she can have me without dating me. I just want to know what a good next move is. I love her company, and am really enjoying hanging out with her. But on days that she seems very distant and not concerned with me, it kills me and makes me not want to be around her. I just don’t know if she’s playing games, or is genuinely interested in me again.

I think she can see that I’ve changed for good from the clingy needy guy that I became during the relationship, which I have promised myself I will never go back to under any condition for any girl. She was my first serious relationship, so I didn’t really know how to balance my life and a girlfriend.

In order to initiate no contact, I’d have to tell her that I don’t want to drive to school with her anymore, which I don’t know if that’s a good idea since it seems like she’s slowly becoming closer to me again like this. I see it like this, if she’s getting closer to me, cool, I wouldn’t mind getting close to her again at a MUCH SLOWER PACE, just enjoying one another and having a good time like we did yesterday. But if she’s just using me to get attention and then going off and having fun on the weekends without me, I don’t want to be dragged around for nothing. I’ll admit I still have feelings for her, and I can’t see how she couldn’t have them for me. But whenever we hang out, it stirs them up a bit, especially when I don’t see her for a few days after we hang out.

Sorry for the long post! Just in a confusing place and trying to get my story out in detail so you all know what’s going on. So, any advice?

[HistorianChick]

Wow. I'm impressed. A lot of college graduates don't have the sense of understanding that you do! You definitely have a good head on your shoulders about all of this.

Yes, she is definitely getting the best of both worlds. You're completely right. Honestly, I think you know exactly what you need to do. In my opinion, you need to be honest with her and tell her exactly what hanging out with her does to you. The fact that it tears you up inside and leaves you with feelings of loss and regret. How her flirting one day and coldness the next kills you.

After you are honest with her, I do think that you need to cut the ties. Hon, don't give her the best of both worlds. She has to choose. The whole "having your cake and eating it too" doesn't work in your world. She has to realize that.

You have admitted that you held on too close during your relationship. Now you need to let go.

Don't let go with the purpose of making her miss you or to win her back. Let go because of what it feels like to hold on.

(I'm at work and YouTube is blocked, but I THINK this is the correct link! Watch this video... it should be Lorelai Gilmore telling her friend why she had to let go of a relationship... YouTube - Gilmore Girls Bumper Scene if its not the right link... sorry about that! Let me know... )

[bigbird213]

Here's what I'm afraid of: She's getting the best of both worlds, the single life, and attention from me.

Bingo my friend, Bingo. You nailed it right on the head.

Your afraid, and you should be. You know its happening and now you need to put a stop to it.

As far as you wanting to get close to her again, at a slower pace, I'm not sure your ready for that. Unless I missed it, it doesn't saw how long ago you broke up, but I'm guessing it wasn't a very long time ago...

You mentioned that you "aren't the clingy guy you were in highschool". That's great, but I'm not convinced... Its take a long time to implement life changes like that, and though you certainly sound like your own the right path, without more time to adjust, it might be all too easy for you to fall back into that mode.

... You know what's going on, now you just need to do something about it.

[talaniman]

When you get dumped, disappear from her life, heal, and regroup.

In other words, let her get her own ride, and save you from the false hope, she will change her mind.

You will never heal, and see things clearly, while your still in contact with her.

[questionnaire]

Haha thanks HistorianChick! It's always good to hear a compliment like that, makes me feel a little less crazy sometimes, especially with my current situation. I actually avoided posting on here for awhile because a) I wanted to see how my situation was playing out on a little longer timescale, but more importantly b) because I didn't want to hear that I needed to cut all ties with her! Haha. Luckily I've has a supporting family and a couple friends that have helped me through this. Believe me, I was a wreck 3 weeks ago. I feel like I'm making a total turn around and really remembering who I am. I've told my ex several times about how glad I was for the space apart because I've learned so much about myself that I could only learn on my own.

I know that cutting ties with her would be smart, and I know that it would make things easier quick, but it really just doesn't feel right. It makes more sense, but I just haven't been able to bring myself to tell her I don't want to drive to school with her anymore. I'm very stubborn in my nature about this sort of thing, and I NEVER give up on things that I have any emotions invested in without a substantial effort. I usually try to figure out the best way to fix them, and then try to stick to it. When the breakup first happened, I was sure to never call, text, or contact her first in any way. I always made her come to me, and I think that worked well. I feel like sticking to that will draw her closer to me, and as long as I can manage my emotions, which I've been gradually getting MUCH better at over these weeks, it will drive her crazy.

I know she's still into me, at least to some degree, and I know I have feelings for her. It just seems like she is better able to turn those emotions off. Every time I talk to her they get stirred up sure, but I feel like the more I cope with them and face the problem, the stronger I'm getting. Last week, the day after hanging out with her, I was all pissed off and upset. Today, I'm better. I feel like being the guy I used to be around her is making her see what she lost. But then she hasn't really lost it then has she?

I'm probably just trying to rationalize being around her because it's comfortable, but something about her just doesn't seem worth giving up yet. Plus, I almost like being this emotionally invested in something, it gives me a challenge in my life. But then again, maybe it's time to give her this feeling of chasing after something eh?

I think the biggest reason I don't want to give up contact is because I feel like if I ignore her for a day or go do something else instead of hanging out with her, it will push her further away. But I know that's not how it works, and everyone tells me it will drive her crazy. Look at what it does to me when she does that! I know I should do that, but I enjoy being around her too much, and lately things seem to be heading in a good direction.

And sorry if I forgot to mention it, it's been about 3 or 4 weeks. What's strange is that I've enjoyed the time with her recently more than I ever did over the past 2 months of our relationship. We are mature about things, and we don't argue about stupid little issues now. I almost felt like things were getting dry, and I guarantee it was because we spent every moment of our lives together. It feels refreshing to be around her without the pointless arguments. Sure she may go out with her friends all weekend now, but I almost feel like by sticking around, I'm LEARNING how not to be controlling and clingy. Because I have no right to tell her what to do, when she does things I don't agree with, I just have to let them go, which is beginning to get easier for me.

What I definitely don't want to do is ween her off me, or allow myself to slip into the friend zone from where I'll never be anything more to her, because I definitely never want to be just friends with her.

I guess I've realized that even if this is hard for me now, in the long run, being investing in something like this will teach me a lot about myself and how to keep my composure in emotionally stressful situations.

So there's my rationalization to why I've been doing what I'm doing. Is there any merit to it? A good strategy in any sense? Or pointless self-torture that is only hurting me? And sorry if I've rambled, but this is helping just by getting what's in my head down into words.

Also, I'm playing devil's advocate here because if I do cut all contact, I want to make sure it was because my methods right now are absolutely pointless, but it doesn't necessarily feel like they are, which is why I've come here :) Even by writing all this, I'm starting to see how it doesn't necessarily make that much sense. My heart and mind are conflicting, haha.

[talaniman]

allow myself to slip into the friend zone from where I'll never be anything more to her, because I definitely never want to be just friends with her.

REALITY CHECK- You are in friendzone.

She has your attention, a ride, and her friends, what more could she ask for????? NOTHING!

What do you have?? A friend who needs a ride all the time. And hope for more?????

[Dare81]

I know that cutting ties with her would be smart, and I know that it would make things easier quick, but it really just doesn't feel right. It makes more sense, but I just haven't been able to bring myself to tell her I don't want to drive to school with her anymore.

Wait a couple of months, she will eventually tell you that she doesn't need a ride with you because she found someone else


I'm very stubborn in my nature about this sort of thing, and I NEVER give up on things that I have any emotions invested in without a substantial effort.

Your so called ' substantial effort' is a waste of time, which is going to leave you feeling hurt


I usually try to figure out the best way to fix them, and then try to stick to it. When the breakup first happened, I was sure to never call, text, or contact her first in any way. I always made her come to me, and I think that worked well.

This is not a game.You are looking towards this person to make you happy, she controls how you feel.The only person in control of your emotions should be you


Last week, the day after hanging out with her, I was all pissed off and upset. Today, I'm better. I feel like being the guy I used to be around her is making her see what she lost. But then she hasn't really lost it then has she?

She can't really miss you if you are hanging out with her

My advice to you is NC.Find something. To do. She will eventually find someone else while you will still be trying to get back with her.Dont waste your time.Move on

[questionnaire]

Hmm yeah I see what you're all saying. The thing is, I've become almost numb to what she's doing. It can bother me when I'm with her, but I don't really get upset anymore when I'm not with her. I can honestly say she can no longer ruin my day, something she could do quite easily even while we were together. I think I'm definitely getting over her, but I think she's doing the same, so in the end, yeah, this is probably really pointless.

I'm going to miss her, because just like she likes the attention from me, I do enjoy the attention I get from her. But I know it's a waste of time, and a lost cause. After reading what I typed, I sound like a crazy person.

Just to be clear, I don't think she drives with me to school just to bum a ride, because she drives me there just as often, and she's not really concerned about money, so gas probably isn't her concern. I'm sure it's because during the week and during school, I'm her only person to really hang out with, and she sees that, and like I think I've made clear, she likes attention. I know that I need to give her none of it, something I did when I first met her, and that drove her absolutely crazy, and made her really want to be with me.

It's just crazy, because she told me once when she saw I was starting to get over her that she was realizing she couldn't have he cake and eat it too, which I thought was a miracle for her to see. But now I realize, oops, I'm letting her have exactly that.

Thanks for all the advice. I know I sound like an idiot, but I really just needed to hear what I knew I needed to do all along.

As far as finding something to do, I really have nothing to fill that time slot. School is easy, no homework, I work but not enough to fill my time, and I really have no friends here. Community college isn't the best environment to meet people. I'm getting more comfortable with being my own independent person again though, so that's good. I guess I just have to take the final step now.

[tabbarat]

Damn, we are going through almost the same thing! Read my question!

I know that I'm going to get a "disagree" for this, but for the people that know me, they know I don't give a rat;s arse and speak my mind! Heheh

U want my advice: if she likes u AS MUCH as you like her, and u SEE a chance you will get back, don't let her go COMPLETELY, or you might regret it.. and trust me, regret is a bit*h!

What I suggest, is be with her, have fun, remind her of the good days of past, present, future... but to prevent yourself from being in friendzone or her from eating her cake, u 'play the game!'

Ex: do your own thing on weekend,, show her your partying and meeting chicks... let her see your fine without her, etc... but ALSO, be confident and show her you care... that will confuse her and make HER want to be in your world

That's my advice... godspeed

[Dare81]

damn, we are going through almost teh same thing! read my question!

i know that im gonna get a "disagree" for this, but for the ppl that know me, they know i dont give a rat;s arse and speak my mind! heheh

u want my advice: if she likes u AS MUCH as u like her, and u SEE a chance u will get back, dont let her go COMPLETELY, or u might regret it..and trust me, regret is a bit*h!

what i suggest, is be with her, have fun, remind her of the good days of past, present, future...but to prevent urself from being in friendzone or her from eating her cake, u 'play the game!'

ex: do ur own thing on weekend,,,show her ur partying and meeting chicks...let her see ur fine without her, etc...but ALSO, be confident and show her u care...that will confuse her and make HER want to be in ur world

thats my advice...godspeed

Your advice might help him get his ex back, but I don't know how that 's going to solve the problem that ended the relationship in the first place.
As for the regret part, she left him he didn't leave her, so I don't see how he could regret a decision that he never made.She should be the one regretting it, and that would never happen if he keeps acting like doormat.

[EN Ken]

I'm going to preface this post by saying that I've dealt with this type of girl on many an occasion and even though I will give you advice that will let you get her back, I have to warn you that she's damaged. It's probably not what you want to hear, but she is.

We'll get into the specifics of why as I answer.

She was very social in school, student council president, probably the most popular girl in high school, which is where I met her, senior year. She loved hanging out with friends, and I could tell she liked attention, so this just went along with her personality.

You're very perceptive in noticing that she liked the attention. The 2nd emotional need of women is a need for a range of emotions. When a woman like this is lavished with attention, she feels a full range of emotions. You ever notice how some girls will seemingly love and hate the attention she's getting? Well that's because she is.

A girl who has this need in high amounts, like the girl you're talking about, is a drama queen. They usually like being social because it lets her get into all the gossip.

This need is also why she initially broke up with you. With this being her dominant need, she always needs to be feeling a variety of different emotions or she'll be bored. If you guys were hanging out all the time and doing the same things each time you hung out, then she likely got emotionally bored and thus wanted to go back to her lifestyle where she was always experiencing different emotions.

She could tell that I was really getting over her, and this KILLED her. She got instantly very flirty with me and all lovey dovey. We hung out for a bit, and when I said bye to her before I went off to work, she gave me a kiss on the lips, something she wouldn't do last time we hung out. Next day, she’s very distant, acting like the day before didn't even happen. So this made me realize I needed to give her even more space because she was very confused and she was dragging me into the confusion circle.

And this is the source of her damage. The moment she realized that she was losing you, she was attracted. A healthy woman would not react this way.

The fact is, when she feels like she's losing you, she feels more attracted. This is the exact opposite to what a healthy woman would feel which is attraction if she knows that you're more likely to stick around.

Now, let me temper those last statements a bit. The fact that she is young does factor into this. In general, women who are younger have a higher need for drama, so this may simply be a phase for her that she may (hopefully) grow out of.

As for advice, there are two options.

The first is you get her back by always constantly keeping her off balance. You take her out on dates where you don't tell her what you guys are doing and just go on adventure after adventure with this girl. You also cannot ever make her feel too secure in terms of your attraction for her. You must make her doubt to some extent that you'll stick around in the long-run. Yes, that sentence sounds really twisted, but that is the nature of this type of girl. Only by constantly threatening to leave does she truly feel attracted to you.

Again, because she is young, this may change. As she matures, it may be that she takes on a healthy set of emotions, in which case if you're still with her at that point, you must make her feel that you WILL stick around in the long-run but that's a bridge to cross when you come to it.

The second is to simply find a better girl for you. This girl is going to be a "drama trip and a half" as I like to say. She will always be doing things to create drama and complication because that is the nature of her

Anyway. Good luck.

Hope that helped.

[tabbarat]

I agree with your strategy!

[tabbarat]

I went through the same thing... and now doing EN kens strategy... a balance of showing her a good time and flirting, etc, but also sometimes being unavailable and go out to clubs without her..

Would appreciate your input on my question/thread, en ken "i really like u, but i still love my ex of 10 yrs.."

Regards

[questionnaire]

Thanks all so much for the posts. They're helping me to see the true nature of this girl, something I've been beginning to understand with the more space I have apart from her. Sorry that this post is so long, just more of me thinking out loud, but I figure if someone else reads this and comes across a similar situation in their life, understanding everything that went on may make their time a little easier to figure out.

I guess just for a little status update, I hung out with her on Friday this weekend for a bit, and just as I suspected she would be, she seemed very distant and uninterested in me. Because I expected it, it really didn't affect me too much. But then as I'm on the way to drop her back off at home (while she's texting her friends back and forth, trying to make plans for the night), I realized I just wasn't as into this girl as I used to be, she just seemed different. So anyway, I haven't heard from her since Friday. We had plans to watch a movie together at some point this weekend, but I knew that probably wouldn't happen, and as the weekend progress, I found myself not really wanting to hear from her. I'm sure she hung out with her friends, probably going down to visit her friend at college.

So anyway, I looked for something else to do. Turns out my two of my good friends came into town from college for the weekend. So Saturday afternoon, I got out to lunch with one of my friends who's in town along with two of my other good friends who go to community college with me. But it felt like a little reunion, and I realized why I like hanging out with them so much. They can enjoy life for what it is, and just appreciate what's going on in the moment. And it showed. I had a genuinely good time hanging out with them, not doing much of anything but just talking back and forth with them. I realized that this is how I used to be, able to just enjoy the moment for what it was. So we continued to hang out all day, and I hung out with my one friend who was in town all weekend. He reminded me how drama-free my life used to be, just kicking it with my buddies, talking about life and interesting things. If I was with my ex, she would have been distant and trying to figure out what else she could do this weekend. So my buddy and I did simple things, got some coffee, hung out with his family, went to the park. We didn't go out and party all weekend, even though we had the opportunity to (We actually ended up having to rescue my friend who's a girl and her friends from a party that got busted). My friend showed me the same appreciation for life that I used to have. He was happy to be doing anything, and I enjoy being around people like that.

This got me to thinking, why did I even start dating my ex if this is the type of people I like to be around? Then I realized, she used to be like this, way back when we first started hanging out. She was happy to just lay with me and talk for hours, with no concerns for what her friends might be doing or what's going on that night. We were happy to be around each other, and it showed. It was what drew me to her, what made me let her stick around. Then, as my attraction grew, hers must have begun to fade a few months into the relationship. I should have seen it coming, her increasing distance from me was always something I noticed. My newness faded, and she sought new excitement. That wasn't something that was in my nature to do, so I didn't understand it, probably the beginning of my insecurities with her, which sent me down a path of becoming someone I never plan on becoming again.

So yes, EN Ken, that strategy probably would work, because it's what she seeks, constant excitement. But honestly, I agree, she does have issues. She can't settle for one thing, at least not for too long. And for now, I can't count on that changing, and it's unfair to enter a relationship expecting a change from someone. So as I distance myself from her, I'm sure she'll begin to seek my attention again, if only to get her fix of it. But unless I see some serious change from this girl back to how she was when I met her, I would never consider dating her again.

I don't like drama, and never have. I hate playing games, and told my ex in the beginning that I would never play them with her, and she believed it. The more she began playing them with me, the more she realized she could get away with it. I don't like that I've gone along with this for as long as I have, but I'm glad I've experienced it firsthand so I know what to avoid with a girl.

[EN Ken]

Cool man.

I'm glad I could provide some perspective into the situation.

[tabbarat]

Yeah.. long post, but good ideas :)

[talaniman]

I don't think she has made any changes, maybe your just seeing them as we all see things, through those intense feelings, in the beginning, and you both were on your best behavior. Happens all the time, when things settle down emotionally and we start to see things we were blind to before.

Your very first paragraph, tells of the differences you had already noticed, but didn't understand.

Thats where communications comes in, it helps get some understanding, and clarifications as to boundaries, that define a relationship.

The real question now, is can you deal with the friendship level, at this time, since she still gets a ride from you, and have to see each other.

Being around an ex, will keep those feelings stirred up for sure, and that will make it harder to think, and focus on you, and what's best for you. It also feeds that false hope that things will change, and the relationship will go back to what it was. That seldom happens.

[questionnaire]

I went to school with her today, and I finally had the talk with her that I needed to. I told her that I couldn't handle being friends with her because whenever I'm around her, it stirs up these feeling I still have for her. I basically said I'm not totally over you, and being around you makes it impossible for me to do so. She didn't understand at first, thinking I was just throwing our friendship away. She even started crying. But I told her that it just messes with me too much emotionally, and I think I got her to understand why I just can't be around her right now. She even told me she kissed another guy over the weekend. Nothing serious, just a peck, but that's enough for me to see that she is 100% not looking to come back to any type of committed relationship with me.

She tells me that she doesn't want a relationship with ANYONE, and will not be looking for guys to date. She said that the kiss meant nothing, and she wants it to continue to mean nothing when she kisses someone, at least for now. She told me how that I did absolutely nothing wrong in the relationship, and that I was the best guy she's ever had, but she just needs to be single to, as she puts it, "experience all kinds of people." She feels that she's too young to be tied down in a relationship. I told her that if I'm happy with someone, then I won't feel the need to see what else is out there, so in that aspect we just might be too different for each other.

Regardless, we're done, and we probably won't be seeing much of each other. I feel liberated though, like I finally got everything off my chest. It's all out in the open, and I can see that as we are, we just won't work together.

Thank you all again for all the helpful posts, they were the push I needed to do the right thing.

[EN Ken]

You are more than welcome.

One additional note. Be prepared for the possibility that she will call you in hopes of "hanging out" with you. From what you've written about this girl, this is very clearly inside the realm of possibility. She may call you just to start up this whole dramatic relationship you've had with her.

Hopefully, she'll respect your wishes and leave you alone, but she may call. If that happens, stick to your guns and what you initially told her. Ignore her calls if it comes to that.

[Shorn9]

I went through the same thing several months ago.. in my case we were working together so I had to see her every day... same thing.. when she saw me talk to some girl even after breaking up she got really jeolous... long story short.. stay away. It will save you the agony and pain that may be coming if you follow the path that you are. Don't take the same classes next semester. Give yourself a chance to think and figure out if the relationship is worth the pain. She will probably try to come back to you and if she does, you will need to decide whether you can take the chance and maybe get heart again. I know its hard, believe me I have learnt the hard way. But don't make the same mistake I made. Months later.. it still hurts. You enjoy the company because in your heart you hope and pray that she comes back to you. Run, run fast before it gets worse. If she gets a new boyfriend she will still want you there "jst incase".. as you said, she is having the best of both worlds in case one doesn't go as she wants... get yourself out before you are in it too deep.