[sndbay]

sndbay,
The destruction of the temple took place long ago.
So how can one stand in the holy place today?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, all that is written is not unlike an example of that to come. Believe what is written, the temple is not a structured building built by man. The temple is Christ, and we believe what He has given in The Word, The Bread of Life. The building structure known on earth as a church is called a house of prayer.

The Lord's Day is when Christ will stand on Mount Zion. Christ will destroy the lies, and lock up antichrist. The deception is that satan will proclaim to be the Lamb who will be standing where he should not, and deceiving the weak=(less wise) who will give suck=(believe) his flood of lies. Satan will be the false = temple not to be left standing, and all those that follow him. Satan standing where Christ loved and refer: His holy mountian.

Mark 11:17And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? But ye have made it a den of thieves.

Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

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Christ is the Temple

Matthew 12:5 But I say unto you, That in this place is ONE greater than the temple.
Matthew 26:61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of His Body.

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Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mark13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down
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Christ is talking of Himself

Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
Matthew 15:29 And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days,
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

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Christ foretold of what was to come. Weep for yourselves = generations of children.

Luke 23:28-29 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
Mark 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Luck 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

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Each individual who follows and believes, walk in Christ as in the temple, for Christ is with us. Don't be deceived by antichrist, don't soil the temple of the living God ...

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
2 Cr 6:16-17 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

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Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

[arcura]

sndbay,
Thanks for your opinion and work on that.
Fred

[freeman4]

I'd LOVE to answer it but it will fall on deaf ears. Jesus didn't say that to YOU..he said that to the JEWS! That my friend was NOT written to the Church. That is written for the Jews and specifically the ones that shall be on the earth during the tribulation period.

That was written to the whole House of Israel, which weather you want to believe it or not, you are apart of unless you are a true Gentile.

The apostles were commanded to "go to the Lost House of Israel" He does not say the " House of Judah'.

[TWTaylor]

I can answer who these “dead in Christ” are, If we are talking about the same thing.

Paul is talking about the time of Christ’s return, at His coming, “the dead in Christ will rise first”, then “we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them (The dead in Christ) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” And thus we shall always be with the Lord. The thing to watch for is where will these that are always with the Lord be found again. The next place these that are resurrected and those that are changed turns up is with Christ when He comes to the mount of olives


1Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

1Thes 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The next place these that are resurrected (dead in Christ) and those that are changed turns up is with Christ when He comes to the mount of olives or Mount Zion. This is the group that is always with the Lord.

Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

This is the same 144,000 Servants that were sealed in Rev 7.

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps.

Rev 14:3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.

Rev 14:4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

The “dead in Christ” are part of, or maybe most of the 144,000

[classyT]

Freeman4,

When I read my bible.. there are the Jews, the Gentiles and the Church. When I was born I was a Gentile... about 4 years old I became part of the Church. Jesus was talking to the Jewish nation. And fyi... he isn't finished with them yet. When the church is rapurted.. he will deal with the Jewish nation.

[classyT]

TW,

OH MY! Really??

I am quoting you...


The “dead in Christ” are part of, or maybe most of the 144,000

No. NO. NO. The dead in Christ are those that have died knowing who Christ was and what he did for them. My Daddy is part of that group.

[TWTaylor]

Hey Classy T,

The dead in Christ are those that have died knowing who Christ was and what he did for them.

I think that is about what I said, I am talking about the first resurrection. I gave the scriptures, but maybe we are talking about something else. It's great to hear from you. TW

[freeman4]

Couldn't agree with you more. However when he is talking to the twelve in Luke ( the scripture that Snd quoted...he is speaking to the nation of Israel and what they can expect during the tribulation period. Will the whole world be affected? You bet...but those verses are for Israel.

In the Bible you have The House of Judah and the House of Israel mentioned. Evidently there are two different groups of people. If this is the case, where are they located today. I know that the Jews are the House of Judah, but called Israel..

Why was the command given to go to the Lost House of Israel? It is not the Jews for they will not listen.

[dwashbur]

Actually, he said to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. In this instance, "house" just means "the Jewish people" that they were likely to encounter on that particular mission. By the time of Jesus the distinction between Israel and Judah that was prominent during the divided kingdom seems to have faded into obscurity. As Paul develops in Romans 9-11, all of Jewish heritage seem to have been lumped under "Israel" by that time.

[freeman4]

Sorry, He did not say The House of Judah which the Jews are, He said the House of Israel. That is twisting scripture?

[dwashbur]

No, that's acknowledging the history of the nation. It's an important aspect of interpreting Scripture. In the New Testament, the people of Judea and the dispersion are consistently called "Israel." We can trace the usage clear back to the inter-testamental period, when "Judah" dropped out of popularity as a term for the Jews, and "Israel" rose as the preferred term. The divided kingdom, and the ten "lost tribes" had pretty well been forgotten by that time, mostly because they ceased to exist. So when Jesus and Paul talk about "Israel," we know from history that they are talking about the Jewish people who are standing right in front of them. "Israel" only denoted the northern kingdom when there actually was a northern kingdom. When Assyria destroyed and scattered them, "Israel" as a separate kingdom and people no longer existed. The Samarians were all that was left, and I'm not sure anybody claims that they are the true "Israel" today.

[TWTaylor]

Actually, he said to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. In this instance, "house" just means "the Jewish people" that they were likely to encounter on that particular mission. By the time of Jesus the distinction between Israel and Judah that was prominent during the divided kingdom seems to have faded into obscurity. As Paul develops in Romans 9-11, all of Jewish heritage seem to have been lumped under "Israel" by that time.

Hello Dwashbur, Thank you for your response,

the house of Israel. In this instance, "house" just means "the Jewish people"

I think I might understand what you are saying “house" means Jewish people” then “house of Israel” means “Jews of Israel” and that could be. But “house of Israel” could mean “Israel” The Jews are of Israel, but the rest of Israel are not Jews. I think Christ was sending the apostles to Israel to let them know the good news that there was a New Covenant for the house of Judah and them, the house of Israel. The new Covenant is clearly with both houses.

Hew 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-

[dwashbur]

I think I might understand what you are saying “house" means Jewish people” then “house of Israel” means “Jews of Israel” and that could be. But “house of Israel” could mean “Israel” The Jews are of Israel, but the rest of Israel are not Jews. I think Christ was sending the apostles to Israel to let them know the good news that there was a New Covenant for the house of Judah and them, the house of Israel. The new Covenant is clearly with both houses.

Hew 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-

The problem is that, by the time Hebrews was written, there was no House Of Israel as defined in Jeremiah, which is what Hebrews is quoting (Jeremiah 31 to be a little more precise). And if you read on down to verse 10, there's no mention of Judah when he develops the content of the new covenant. Why? Well, maybe it's because God never considered them two separate peoples. The primary causes of the divided kingdom were political; God never asked for nor approved it. He did approve of Josiah's attempt to reunite the two kingdoms, even though it ultimately failed. By the time Jeremiah wrote, the northern kingdom had already been destroyed and the northern tribes were scattered who knows where, never to reunite. But the kingdom of Judah never stopped being part of what the Lord considered Israel. They were still all one people. Half of them vanished forever after the destruction of Samaria, but the other half endured in the southern kingdom. It's all Israel, at least theologically speaking. That's shown by Jeremiah, quoted by Hebrews, lumping them all under "Israel" later in this oracle, as I already mentioned.

The New Testament tells us that we are "grafted-in" branches of that same Israel, a single people of God through all generations united by the common thread of faith. Paul says not all Israel is Israel, but only those who believe, and we are part of the same tree that they grow on. This is why I reject the dispensational idea that God still has future dealings with national/ethnic Israel. When Jesus ripped the temple veil in half, he opened the way for everybody equally. No difference: male, female, Jew or gentile, and all that. The New Testament hammers away at the fact that there's no difference, people of faith are people of God whatever their heritage. I'm constantly amazed at how many otherwise competent scholars don't grasp that.

[TWTaylor]

Hello Dwashbur, Maybe I missed something, but I don't see “there was no House Of Israel as defined in Jeremiah.” I find they are to be brought from the north country, gathered from the ends of the earth. A great throng shall return. All in verse 8.

In verse 10 it says “And declare it in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him” That is scattered, not destroyed.

In verse 16 we are told “, says the Lord, And they shall come back from the land of the enemy.”

In verse 17 we see Rachel is told there is hope for her children, “That your children shall come back to their own border.”

In verse 18 we see that our God has heard Ephraim (the firstborn, The leader of Israel)


Jer 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, And gather them from the ends of the earth, Among them the blind and the lame, The woman with child And the one who labors with child, together; A great throng shall return there.

Jer 31:9 They shall come with weeping, And with supplications I will lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters, In a straight way in which they shall not stumble; For I am a Father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn.

Jer 31:10 "Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, And declare it in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.'

Jer 31:15 Thus says the Lord: "A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children, Refusing to be comforted for her children, Because they are no more."

Jer 31:16 Thus says the Lord: "Refrain your voice from weeping, And your eyes from tears; For your work shall be rewarded, says the Lord, And they shall come back from the land of the enemy.

Jer 31:17 There is hope in your future, says the Lord, That your children shall come back to their own border.

Jer 31:18 "I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself: 'You have chastised me, and I was chastised, Like an untrained bull; Restore me, and I will return, For You are the Lord my God.

I wrote a article years ago, The USA in the Bible. It's on my web page at www.troywtaylor.com

[TWTaylor]

Hey Dwashbur,

I reject the dispensational idea that God still has future dealings with national/ethnic Israel.

I really don't know what a dispensational is, but God still will deal with the decedents of Israel, Like Paul said “All Israel will be saved.”

You say you are a gentile, I suppose you know who you are, but our God don't forget His promises to Israel. When the firstfruits of God are numbered, there are no gentiles among them.

Gen 32:12 "For You said, 'I will surely treat you well, and make your descendants as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.' "

I suppose we know it takes a lot of people to be numbered as the sand of the sea, I don't think they are all Jews.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;