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pwinn · Jun 3, 2006, 08:14 AM

My Kenmore front loader runs out of balance at very high speed. Previous to this it ran fine until my drain pump got plugged with a nickel that broke a blade in the pump. The washer went very imbalanced with the water not drained, very loud knocking/banging. I replaced the pump and the drain works fine now, however the imbalance remains. I've checked the floor mounts and they're solid. The springs and the dashpots on the sides holding the barrel look OK. The machine spins up OK but at very high speed a knocking noise begins and the barrel starts to wobble around. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

applguy · Jun 3, 2006, 07:22 PM

I need a model number before I can tell what kind of machine you have. Kenmore branded appliances could be built by several different manufacturers, all having very different designs. You should find a model/serial tag around the tub opening behind the door. Thanks.

pwinn · Jun 4, 2006, 08:18 AM

Model 417.40052990
Thanks

applguy · Jun 4, 2006, 08:44 PM

This washer was built by Frigidaire. As for the movement of the tub during spin, I haven't ever seen one that didn't. Only you, having been used to it, could say if it is excessive. As for the noise, I would be looking for a hose or harness tapping the inside walls of the cabinet during spin or something like that, if that's what it sounds like anyway. I would also say that the "dashpots" (Frigidaire calls them shocks) can't really be tested. If that load went out of balance really hard, it may have damaged one or both of them, but the only way to know is to replace them. I would bet the springs are okay. You also might make sure all 3 paddles inside the drum are not loose, because they might be noisey in a spin. Let me know how it goes.

pwinn · Jun 5, 2006, 05:27 AM

Hi, thanks for getting back. The movement of the tube is defiantly much more than normal. As the machine spins up it goes through a resonance that makes a banging nose, it runs through this in about 5-10 seconds, then runs smoothly up to top speed. This is pretty normal. However, when the speed get to the top the drum begins to roll laterally and a loud double bang starts. It isn't a wall tapping it's got way too much force. I can put my hand on the drum to hold it but I can't affect the noise (just looking for a Darwin award). It may be the shocks but the noise really seems to be from the inside. I checked the paddles and they're OK. This really has me stumped.

applguy · Jun 5, 2006, 04:13 PM

If it's really that bad, you probably have a busted tub support. The inner basket is attached to a "Y" shaped thing with a shaft that protrudes through the back of the outer tub. That's where the big drum pulley attaches on the back. Under the paddles inside the inner basket there are nuts that attach the tub to the tub support. Sometimes the bolts break off leaving the tub attached with only two bolts. At low speeds it's okay, but when the drum gets upward to 1000 rpm, it really starts banging. The unfortunate thing is that the bolts are part of the tub support. When they break, you can't replace the bolts, you have to replace the tub support and rear water seal. You might be able to verify this by removing the phillips head screw in each tub baffle and sliding the baffle either forward or backward to release from the inner tub. Use a pair of slip joint pliers to firmly wiggle the nuts that hold the inner tub in place. If one or more is loose, you can try to tighten it, but it might break off. Let me know what you find.

pwinn · Jun 5, 2006, 06:37 PM

Bummer: That sounds right. However, I removed the baffles but I didn't see any nuts. It looks like a have to take the shaft nut off and remove about 18 bolts to pull the outer tub apart. Its getting very ugly.

applguy · Jun 5, 2006, 09:07 PM

I'm sorry, I think I was thinking about a Maytag. I've only had to dig into this style of machine once or twice before, so my memory is a little fuzzy. The only other thing I can think of is that sometimes there are larger holes in the inner basket under the paddles. Sometimes you can use these holes to inspect the area between the tubs for foreign material flopping around in there. I must applaude your endurance, as most people wouldn't dare to disassemble the outer tub. I don't think even I would try it without calling the factory's tech service line for additional help. I think there is a seal between the tub halves that likely should be replaced when splitting the tub open to prevent leaks after reassembly. If nothing else, you could take the drum/tub assembly out and take that to a repair shop and have them tear it apart. Should be cheaper that way. Also, if it leaks, you don't have to go it alone. Just something to think about. Good luck.

pwinn · Jun 6, 2006, 06:33 AM

Well it looks like I'm go'n in. I was eyeing that seal with much trepidation last night, but I think I need to just take it apart and see what I find. If it looks tricky to put back together I'll bring it to a repair shop. I can see the trick being tightening the bolts evenly all around to get a good seal. There are big openings under two of the paddles but I didn't see anything in there. The wife's patience is holding for now (although a softball game last night didn't help). She's only used the obligatory “you better be able to put this back together” line once so far.

pwinn · Jun 6, 2006, 04:39 PM

I found the other trick. Getting the front bellows off. There doesn't' seem to be a way to get in at it. It looks like it's held on with a spring-boot in the parts list picture, but I can't get at it.

applguy · Jun 6, 2006, 07:16 PM

I have about 14 service calls to run tomorrow, but I seen one of these washers in our shop yesterday. I think they're done with it, but if the owner hasn't picked it up yet and if I get a chance to get in there, I can refresh my memory and give you some pretty specific answers.

pwinn · Jun 8, 2006, 06:40 AM

Epilogue: With my tail between my legs I called the Sears repair center and explained what I was thinking of doing. They said I REALY-REALY didn’t want to do that! They told me to get a service warranty and they would come out and look at it. They came out and found that the bearing that holds the Y shaped support was gone. The theory being that when the pump plugged the overload due to the extra wet cloths busted it. I should note that my wife said she had to spin the laundry out a couple of times recently to get the cloths dry (can you say fatigue). Anyway Sears is going to have to tear the whole thing apart (a two man job). Without the warranty it would be $700 - $800, the warranty was $280, so I guess I made out on the deal. They also said I was essentially getting a new machine because they have to replace virtually all the mechanical stuff (except the pump that I already did).

Thanks for the help Applguy, it was quite a learning experience.