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Politics: who to vote for
Today, in Church, our pastor talked about politics and who to vote for without actually endorsing a candidate. Although, it seemed obvious, I could be wrong, it seemed like he made his points for McCain. He didn't like the way Obama answered the question on marriage by saying "for me, as a Christian" and said he should have instead said as a Christian! I don't see anything wrong with that answer, I think our pastor was looking to deep in that question. Of course our pastor didn't say Obama's name so I googled it and it was from Rick Warren's interview. Anyway, the whole point I guess I am trying to make is that politics in Church is a very sensitive topic. Today I felt like I was told who I have to vote for. I know as a Christian that abortion, homosexuality, etc is wrong but does that mean I have to vote for a republican? I don't approve of those things but those things will not change because they are going to happen no matter what. The whole political system is corrupt!
Please respond. Thanks |
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nao381, I don't think anyone should tell you how to vote, including your Pastor. For myself, I vote according to my Bible but I don't need my Pastor to tell me that. I personally think that views on political matters should stay out of the pulpit. ( that includes ol Jeremiah Wright's! Church too... ha) |
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Vote on the issues that matter most to you. Study the issues and make an educated decision. Your opinion is no more or less important than anyone else's.
Your pastor can not (or should not) endorse a political candidate at any level. In this country non profit organizations may not have political affiliations. If this policy is violated, their non profit status will be revoked. |
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It should be easy, a christian should be pro life, who is pro life among the choices. A christian should want a moral value on the nation, who has or wants that. A christian must look at their values as a christian and desire for this to move back to being a christian nation. Personally I don't see that a good choice in either. But of course yes, other non profit groups got laws passed to stop churches, ( silly that non profit pro abortion groups, or even non profit pro gun groups) can all support candidates but religions cannot. Of course the fact that the nation is not suppose to pass laws restricting religion, well lets not get that silly constitution in the way of controlling religion. |
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II Jn 1:10-11 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (KJV) To vote for one you know is opposed to your Christian values is worse than bidding him/her God speed. I wouldn't want to face Jesus after doing so. |
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Yes, it is easy, the president picks the supreme court members, as of late they are making law not really since they go far beyond ruling according to the US const. So if we keep electing real christian presidents, real christian senators, real christian house members, then soon our nation would return to moral views and laws. It is just christians don't think they should vote their faith because of the lack of living their faith |
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 Originally Posted by Galveston1
My dad was a pastor and never talked politics from the pulpit or even casually with parishioners. That is as it should be. |
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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
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I think that Christians should vote for the person who is most moral according to Christian ideals and teaching.
Frankly to me that means I can not vote for Obama. Also is the fact that his voting record and what he says now are at odds with each other. I can't believe what he says. I don't trust him at all. I am very frightened that he might become president and destroy the USA. Fred |
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Originally Posted by arcura
What's wrong with Obama's voting record and what he says now? If anyone can save the US and restore its reputation in the world, it's Obama. |
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Obama's foreign policy 'god' is master media manipulator and pathological Russophobe, Zbigniew Brzezinski. Zbigniew Brzezinski has scared many Jewish voters and has fueled the fire of questioning about Obama's true feelings concerning Isreal. Most Christian pastors fall into the Christain Zionist belief that we must do everything we can to allow Zionist Israel to succeed. There is absolutely no doubt as to where McCain and Palin stand on that issue. "The massive aid to Israel is in effect a huge entitlement that enriches the relatively prosperous Israelis at the cost of the American taxpayer. Money being fungible, that aid also pays for the very settlements that America opposes and that impede the peace process." Zbigniew Brzezinski A Dangerous Exemption | Harowo.com — News and Analysis As you can see from the quote, Mr. Brzezinski has made statements that the Zionist do not want to hear. I like hearing them though. :) |
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Wondergirl
No I do not believe all that about MCain. Obama's voting record and what He says today are opposites. In the debates he was asked if he would appoint judges who were prochoice. He said that he would appoint judges according to their judicial merits and did not answer the question because he is on record that he will make abortions easyer to get and would overturn the late term aborsions ban. Not only that he says he will set up a time table for withdrawing our troops from Iraq. That is militarily stupid. One does NOT tell the ememy what one intendes to do. He tell gun owners he will not take away their guns but has voted to do just that. Have you read any of his books? They will frighten you. He is a racist and sides with the Molems. The man is a great danger to the USA. I do not like some things about McCain but he has far more experience that Obama who has served on the senate floor only 200 days. Obama has never had to make an executive decision and he wants to be Chief Executive of the USA. Obama has NO military experience bu he want to be commander in chief of our armed forces. I could go on about how bad that guy is for several pages. Fred. |
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Originally Posted by arcura
In the debates he was asked if he would appoint judges who were prochoice.
He said that he would appoint judges according to their judicial merits and did not answer the question because he is on record that he will make abortions easyer to get and would overturn the late term aborsions ban. There is no way to make abortions easier to get! And remember, he has two daughters. Late-term abortions only when the mother will die if it isn't done.
Not only that he says he will set up a time table for withdrawing our troops from Iraq.. . tell the enemy what we are going to do
He tell gun owners he will not take away their guns but has voted to do just that.
Have you read any of his books?
He is a racist and sides with the Molems.
How does he side with the Muslims? I have several library volunteers who are Muslim. Does that mean I side with them too? What's wrong with Muslims?
McCain... has far more experience that Obama who has served on the senate floor only 200 days.
Obama has never had to make an executive decision and he wants to be Chief Executive of the USA.
Obama has NO military experience bu he want to be commander in chief of our armed forces.
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Consider God's Will being done as we do pray.. Thy Will be done on earth as in heaven.. then go vote! This is a proven email to be true: Read snopes.com: Huntley Brown -- Why I Can't Vote for Obama Why I Can't Vote For Obama By Huntley Brown Dear Friends, A few months ago I was asked for my perspective on Obama, I sent out an e-mail with a few points. With the election just around the corner I decided to complete my perspective. Those of you on my e-list have seen some of this before but its worth repeating.. First I must say who ever wins the election will have my prayer support. Obama needs to be commended for his accomplishments but I need to explain why I will not be voting for him. Many of my friends process their identity through their blackness. I process my identity through Christ. Being a Christian (a Christ follower) means he leads I follow. I can't dictate the terms he does because he is the leader. I can't vote black because I am black I have to vote Christian because that's who I am. Christian first black second. Neither should anyone from the other ethnic groups vote because of ethnicity. 200 years from now I won't be asked if I was black or white. I will be asked if I know Jesus and accepted him as Lord and savior. In an election there are many issues to consider but when a society gets abortion, same-sex marriage, embryonic stem-cell research, human cloning to name a few wrong economic concerns will soon not matter. We need to follow Martin Luther King's words don't judge someone by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I don't know Obama so all I can go off is his voting record. His voting record earned him the title of the most liberal senator in the US Senate in 2007. NATIONAL JOURNAL: Obama: Most Liberal Senator in 2007 (01/31/2008) To beat Ted Kennedy and Hilary Clinton as the most liberal senator, takes some doing. Obama accomplished this feat in 2 short years. I wonder what would happen to America if he had four years to work with. There is a reason planned parenthood gives him a 100 % ratings. There is a reason the homosexual community supports him. There is a reason Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Castro, Hamas etc loves him. There is a reason he said he would nominate liberal judges to the supreme court. There is a reason he voted against the infanticide bill. There is a reason he voted No on the constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. There is a reason he voted no on partial birth abortion. There is a reason he voted no on confirming Justices Roberts and Alito. These two judges are conservatives and they have since overturned partial birth abortion. The same practice Obama wanted to continue. Lets take a look at the practice he wanted to continue. The 5 Step Partial Birth Abortion procedure A. Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's leg with forceps. (Remember this is a live baby) B. The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal. C. The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head. D. The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the hole. E. The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed. God help him. There is a reason Obama opposed the parent notification law. Think about this you can't give a kid an aspirin without parental notification but that same kid can have an abortion without parental notification. This is insane. There is a reason he went to Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years. Obama tells us he has good judgement but he sat under Jeremiah Wright teaching for 20 years. Now he is condemning Wrights sermons. I wonder why now? Obama said Jeremiah Wright led him to the Lord and discipled him. A disciple is one in training. Jesus told us in Matthew 28 v 19 - 20 Go and make disciples of all nations. This means reproduce yourself. Teach people to think like you, walk like you, talk like you believe what you believe etc. The question I have is what did Jeremiah Wright teach him? Would you support a White President who went to a church which has tenants that said they have a 1. Commitment to the White Community 2. Commitment to the White Family 3. Adherence to the White Work Ethic 4. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community . 5. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions 6. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System 7. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System." Would you support a President who went to a church like that? Just change the word from white to black and you have the tennants of Obamas former church. If President Bush was a member of a church like this, he would be called a racist. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton would have been marching outside. This kind of church is a racist church. Obama did not wake up after 20 years and just discovered he went to a racist church. The church can't be about race. Jesus did not come for any particular race. He came for the whole world. A church can't have a value system based on race. The churches value system has to be based on biblical mandate. It does not matter if its a white church or a black church its still wrong. Anyone from either race that attends a church like this would never get my vote. Obama's former Pastor Jeremiah Wright is a disciple of liberal theologian James Cone, author of the 1970 book A Black Theology of Liberation. Cone once wrote: "Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. Cone is the man Obama's mentor looks up to. Does Obama believe this? So what does all this mean for the nation? In the past when the Lord brought someone with the beliefs of Obama to lead a nation it meant one thing judgement. Read 1 Samuel 8. When Israel asked for a king. First God says 1 Samuel 8 v 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do." Then God says 1 Samuel 8 v 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day." 19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles." 21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. 22 The LORD answered, "Listen to them and give them a king." Here is what we know for sure God is not schizophrenic He would not tell one person to vote for Obama and one to vote for McCain. As the scripture says a city divided against itself cannot stand, so obviously many people are not hearing from God. Maybe I am the one not hearing but I know God does not change and Obama contradicts many things I read in scripture so I doubt it. For all my friends who are voting for Obama can you really look God in the face and say Father based on your word, I am voting for Obama even though I know he will continue the genocidal practice of partial birth abortion. He might have to nominate three or four supreme court justices, and I am sure he will be nominating liberal judges who will be making laws that are against you. I also know he will continue to push for homosexual rights, even though you destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for this.I know I can look the other way because of the economy. I could not see Jesus agreeing with many of Obama's positions. Finally I have two questions for all my liberal friends. Since we know someone's value system has to be placed on the nation, 1 Whose value system should be placed on the nation. 2 Who should determine that this is the right value system for the nation? Blessings, Huntley Brown Huntley Brown Music, Christian Concert Pianist |
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Originally Posted by nao381
Not surprisingly, I'm going to answer your question from a different perspective. Your church has been given an exemption from paying taxes - that's ANY taxes at all, because they're a religions organization. However, when a religions organization ventures into politics, like your pastor did, he risks his church's tax exempt status... Your pastor knows that. He knows further, that his tax exemption is granted because the Constitution says so, and that from the standpoint of the Constitution, he is precluded from speaking about politics. Generally, people on the right say that they want Supreme Court Judges on the bench who strictly interpret the Constitution... Why is it OK for your pastor to VIOLATE the Constitution, a document that he purportedly supports?? Well, it isn't OK. In fact, somebody who picks and chooses which parts of the Constitution he is going to obey, isn't worthy of making political suggestions to me. To you either, for that matter. Indeed, it's your church that's corrupted - not the political process, and your pastor should be reported to the IRS. excon |
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A politician cannot very likely be successful in politics and be a complete Christian at the same time. His opponent will clean his clock. If your pastor has helped establish your moral character, he doesn't have to tell you who to vote for, you will make the right choice or no choice. I have a "former" pastor who likes to make everyone aware of his political choices (even brainwashing sessions for children's sermon). It is good to keep politics out of certain work and social settings. Don't assume everyone has the same opinion as you do and just because no one speaks up, doesn't mean you haven't made some enemies and they may get even without you ever knowing it. You just insulted their intelligence by essentially telling them that they are an idiot for backing their idiot candidate. Paybacks are H and revenge is a dish best served cold as they say. |
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Vote Christian Morals!
Originally Posted by sndbay
I’m of the opinion that as Christians we are obligated to vote with an informed Christian conscience. Generally, we find that most all Christian faiths hold similar moral values. Therefore, comments I make here as a Catholic should relate to other Christian faiths. “We need to remember that tolerance is not a Christian virtue, and it's never an end in itself. In fact, tolerating grave evil within a society is itself a form of evil. Likewise, democratic pluralism does not mean that Catholics should be quiet in public about serious moral issues because of some misguided sense of good manners. A healthy democracy requires vigorous moral debate to survive. Real pluralism demands that people of strong beliefs will advance their convictions in the public square - peacefully, legally and respectfully, but energetically and without embarrassment. Anything less is bad citizenship and a form of theft from the public conversation... Charles Chaput, "Litter Murders" A Christian is obligated to vote on those occasions when the election would be a great public benefit, or when the election would cause a grave public harm. When two or more candidates represent an equal moral good or an equally moral negative, the Christian is not obligated to vote. The importance here is that choosing between moral equals isn’t the same as choosing between which candidates offers the largest government check to the voter. During any election, the Christian should cast his vote understanding that the candidate will win and that the voter is cooperating (either formally or remotely) in the candidate’s efforts to do good or evil. For example, the voter casting a vote for a candidate that supports a grave evil specifically because the voter agrees with the evil, finds himself formally cooperates with that evil. Voting for the same candidate for proportionate reasons other than supporting the grave evil is remote material cooperation with evil. That is to say, that the voter’s intent was not to give the candidate the wherewithal to commit evil. Whether has failed his Christian moral responsibilities hinges on the “proportionate reasons.” Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, His Holiness the Pope, puts it more succinctly: (link) “A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.” In my opinion voting for Obama is a vote for death. He is an unabashed Pro-abortion candidate. Charles Chaput said, "To suggest - as some Catholics do - that Senator Obama is this year's 'real' pro-life candidate requires a peculiar kind of self-hypnosis, or moral confusion, or worse, … Speaking for myself, I do not know any proportionate reason that could outweigh more than 40 million unborn children killed by abortion and the many millions of women deeply wounded by the loss and regret abortion creates. “ (Ibid, Emphasis is mine ) The following is a catholic view of the candidates: (link)
JOHN MCCAIN (Republican) on the Pope's Social Teaching...
1. Pro-Life - McCain opposes abortion outright, has committed to a Pro-Life presidency, and backed away from embryonic stem-cell research, hinting that his previous support of it was in error. At the Saddleback Civil Forum he stated that he believed future success in adult stem-cell research would relegate the debate about embryonic stem-cells to academics. 2. Pro-Family - McCain opposed gay-marriage outright, but expressed his support for legal civil-unions of whatever type, at the Saddleback Civil Forum. While this position is less than desired, it is at least more defined than his previous stumbling over the matter. It would appear McCain has finally made up his mind about gay-marriage, and gay civil-unions, as well as when it would be appropriate for him to support the Federal Marriage Amendment. 3. School-Choice - McCain came out strongly for School Choice, in which he specifically supported vouchers, something the pope has championed in recent years. • John McCain has selected Governor Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate. Palin is an Evangelical who agrees with the pope on all three issues of major importance to Catholic Social Doctrine. She is pro-life, opposes gay-marriage, and supports school-choice. A Catholic may vote for her in good conscience. BARACK OBAMA (Democrat) on the Pope's Social Teaching... 1. Pro-Life - Obama supports a "pro-choice" agenda, and therefore opposes the pope's social teaching on human life. At the Saddleback Civil Forum, Obama said it was "above his pay grade" to determine issues of life and death, right and wrong, on this matter with any specificity. 2. Pro-Family - Obama came out in support of gay-marriage by opposing California's referendum against gay-marriage. At the Saddleback Civil Forum, he said he favored gay civil-unions, but personally opposed gay-marriage. He did not, however, state that he opposed gay-marriage on a political level. In this Obama is in direct opposition to the pope's social teaching on the matter. 3. School-Choice - Obama did not speak on school-choice at the Saddleback Civil Forum, but he has come out in opposition to it previously, thus opposing the pope's social teaching on the matter. • Barack Obama has selected Senator Joe Biden as his vice presidential running mate. Biden is a "Cafeteria Catholic" who opposes the pope on all three major issues of Catholic Social Doctrine. He favors abortion on demand, advocates gay civil-unions, and opposes school-choice. As a result, Biden is no longer lawfully permitted to receive communion in the Catholic Church, and some bishops have warned him not to present himself at the communion rail. This amounts to a default excommunication without the formality of paperwork. Because of Biden's status in the Catholic Church, a vote for him is not only a direct vote against the Social Doctrine of the Church, but against the authority of the pope and the Catholic Church itself. Therefore Catholics may not vote for him in good conscience |
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