[wildandblue]

the church leaders are men, not saints or angels. They can and do sin just as much as every human does. So if that happens we use the old rule, the customer is always right, and if the customer is wrong, refer to rule number one. Anyone who desires to be a church leader or a teacher is liable to heavier guilt if he sins in his teaching, but we are told to submit ourselves to their authority which is given from God through the holy spirit. How many times did Saul sin, and very grieviously too. Yet David would always say, how can I thrust out my hand against the anointed of Israel? Once he even crept into the very room where Saul and his guards were sleeping, but he just left a sign that he had been there. So I'm saying it is not a desirable thing to divide up into factions. As you are teaching me there is no church that can claim to be the church started by Paul? So if a person is born Amish or born Baptist or Presbyterian... is there any reason for them to change, just because they all teach different doctrine? There is only one baptism into Christ, after all, isn't there?

[Tj3]

the church leaders are men, not saints or angels. They can and do sin just as much as every human does.

That's right. That is why nowhere in scripture are we told to follow church leaders simply because they are church leaders.

So if that happens we use the old rule, the customer is always right, and if the customer is wrong, refer to rule number one.

Christianity is not a consumer commodity.

Anyone who desires to be a church leader or a teacher is liable to heavier guilt if he sins in his teaching, but we are told to submit ourselves to their authority which is given from God through the holy spirit.

Show me where it says that we are to submit to a church leader who sins in his teaching. If that were true, then why are we told this in scripture?

2 Peter 2:1-3
2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
NKJV

This requires that we judge whether they are true of false teachers, even if they are leaders in the church. In Acts 17:10-11. The men of Berea were commended for testing what Paul was teaching by going into the Bible. And scripture has much more to say on this topic. But I am not aware of any scripture that says to follow what your leaders teach whether they are right or wrong.

How many times did Saul sin, and very grieviously too. Yet David would always say, how can I thrust out my hand against the anointed of Israel?

Let's look at the context of that passage:

1 Sam 24:5-7
5 Now it happened afterward that David's heart troubled him because he had cut Saul's robe. 6 And he said to his men, "The LORD forbid that I should do this thing to my master, the LORD's anointed, to stretch out my hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the LORD." 7 So David restrained his servants with these words, and did not allow them to rise against Saul. And Saul got up from the cave and went on his way.
NKJV

The context here is that Saul was the king of Israel, anointed by God to that position. What David was talking about here was not whether we should obey or oppose false teachers, but rather whether he should physical harm or kill the king of Israel.

That is a much different question.

So I'm saying it is not a desirable thing to divide up into factions.

Not desirable but often necessary due to teaching of wrong doctrine. That is what Paul says:

1 Cor 11:18-20
18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.
NKJV

What else does Paul say?

2 Cor 11:4
4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!
NKJV

What is Paul saying? That if one comes with false teaching of the gospel, we are not to put up with it.

Jesus also says that it is good to test those who claim to authority and judge them accordingly:

Rev 2:2
2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;
NKJV

There is so much in scripture regarding this. But where is there a verse that says that we must not divide when false doctrine is being taught?

As you are teaching me there is no church that can claim to be the church started by Paul?

Neither Paul, nor Jesus nor any other Apostle or disciple started a denomination. Now as to whether a congregation still meets in some city where that congregation was started by Paul, that may be, but what does it matter?

1 Cor 3:4
4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal?
NKJV

So if a person is born Amish or born Baptist or Presbyterian... is there any reason for them to change, just because they all teach different doctrine?

Being born into a denomination does not save. One must receive Jesus Christ as Saviour. If a church is a part of a denomination (ant denomination), that does not guarantee that they are sound in their teaching.

Should they change? Yes they must. To be saved, we must all undergo a change whereby we receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Will our doctrine change - possibly. There is no denomination that has their doctrine 100%. The only source which does is the Bible, and the doctrine of a church, denomination or person is tested by God's word.

There is only one baptism into Christ, after all, isn't there?

Yes, but that has nothing to do with what church congregation you attend, but everything to do with whether your received the true gospel and received Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

1 Cor 12:27-28
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
NKJV