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arcura · Oct 12, 2008, 06:13 PM

cogs,
Yes it has been called "The natural law of man."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 06:14 PM

Cogs,

Faith in the work of Jesus Christ plus NOTHING! That is the process my friend... :)

arcura · Oct 12, 2008, 06:25 PM

classyT,
Plus doing what he said to do.
Fred

cogs · Oct 12, 2008, 06:30 PM

I don't know about a law of man, or belief in jesus being salvation alone.
Surely, these things are evident in those that are being sanctified, but sanctification must occur. We can say we believe in jesus, and still be immersed in sin. We can do good naturally, yet still be unclean to god.
Like where I posted in another thread, what about these verses?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock:

And,

1Cr 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
1Cr 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

Wondergirl · Oct 12, 2008, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

BUT to those who have heard the Gospel and rejected Jesus Christ..even IF they are still kind and follow all the golden rules I will tell you what the LORD has to say about them, he lumps them in with the worst of the worst...

And if you, being born into a Christian family, were told that Hinduism is the only way to heaven/paradise, what would you do? Would you change what has been part of your family for generations and go against what you believe to be true?

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 07:19 PM

Wondergirl,

AHHH! You are forgetting something that is very important... the HOLY SPIRIT! He is the one that opens up the eyes and clears the ears. Truth and Light will always overcome darkness. She has the same opportunity that you did. Before you were saved.. you were lost and on your way to hell... she isn't ANY more lost right now. Give her the Gospel and let the Holy Spirit do HIS job.

Hey, take a look at the nation of Israel, as a nation God blinded them from the truth because they rejected the Messiah. But in his GRACE and MERCY individual jews come to Jesus everyday!

IN the natural it looks impossible.. but it is always a miracle when someone believes!

Wondergirl · Oct 12, 2008, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Before you were saved..you were lost and on your way to hell...she isn't ANY more lost right now. Give her the Gospel and let the Holy Spirit do HIS job.

I was never "lost" nor was I on my way to hell.

Manisha will no more give up her Hinduism for something unintelligible like Christianity than you will your Christianity for Hinduism.

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 07:28 PM

Cogs and Arcura,

I appreciate your wisdom but I disagree with you both... it is faith plus NUTTIN!

Cogs, you gottta remember when Peter was talking to the 3000.. he didn't know anything about the church and thought the Lord was coming to set up his Kingdom within DAYS. They were practicing jews and YES.. repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus was Exactly how it had to be... that would be RADICAL and denouncing Judism and all that they had known. But he had NO IDEA that the gentiles were going to be grafted in... he didn't understand the plan yet.. that was revealed to the apostle Paul. Read his epistles for salvation.

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 07:31 PM

Wondergirl,

You were never lost and on your way to hell? Ahhh OK maybe I assumed you were saved but apparently you don't understand salvation. Cause you were BORN unsaved!

I disagree with you about your friend... Is anything to hard for the LORD?

Wondergirl · Oct 12, 2008, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

it is faith plus NUTTIN!

"Faith without works is dead."

cogs · Oct 12, 2008, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Wondergirl,

you were never lost and on your way to hell? ahhh ok maybe i assumed you were saved but apparently you don't understand salvation. Cause you were BORN unsaved!

I disagree with you about your friend....Is anything to hard for the LORD?

What makes us unsaved when we're born?

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 07:40 PM

Wondergirl,

Who said that? Who is He talking to? What is he talking about. Got to understand this when reading the word or you get confused!

Wondergirl · Oct 12, 2008, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Cause you were BORN unsaved!

And was baptized soon after birth.

Wondergirl · Oct 12, 2008, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Wondergirl,

Who said that? Who is He talking to? What is he talking about. Gotta understand this when reading the word or you get confused!

James 2:20.

I am definitely not confused.

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 07:44 PM

Cogs,

Great question! What makes you unsaved when you are born is a little thing called SIN. WE are born with it... kinda like having a disease past on from generation to generation. It is something that we have to deal with as we grow up and start to understand it. This is why the Lord said we had to be born again. Receive a NEW nature because the old one is corrupt.

Now having said that, does this mean I think babies who die go to hell. NO I do NOT! They are not accountable and I believe the Lord who is just and merciful will take care of all the little ones.

cogs · Oct 12, 2008, 07:46 PM

how do we deal with sin? Isn't sin connected with our salvation?
if we're born into sin, what changes in us, that we're able to
attain salvation? What is sin?

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 07:46 PM

Wondergirl,

Baptisim never saved a soul!

Wondergirl · Oct 12, 2008, 07:49 PM

And what Christian church are you part of that you disbelieve the Bible on baptism?

We're off topic here, so let's get back to the OP's questions, methinks.

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 07:50 PM

Cogs,

I know you know the answer to this question... we deal with it by recognizing that we are lost on our way to hell, sinners, enemies of God. THEN we ask the Lord Jesus to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all of our unrighteousness. Those are the steps to salvation.. once one has accepted Jesus as their savior... then they should be baptized because the LORD ask us to. It does NOT have anything to do with salvation.. it is a outward appearance of a inward change in our lives.

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 07:52 PM

Wondergirl,

Baptism isn't going to save anyone! Jesus blood does. I didn't say you shouldn't be baptized... in fact in obedience to the LORD you should!

One last thing and then we should stop because we are off thread. I KNOW you know where it came from... but do you understand that James is a little Jewish epistle steeped in the law written to the JEWS. If you want to understand salvation and faith, you need to read Paul's epistles. And for the record... Faith without works IS DEAD.. it just isn't null and void!