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MFMARTINS15063 · Oct 8, 2008, 09:30 AM

I have a gas furnace that I believe is a forced hot air system, and all my radiators work except one. I had the bathroom renovated 3 years ago, and they installed a baseboard heater. That's the one that doesn't work. I need to know if I need to replace the radiator or if I can do something with this one. Thanks.

Neilcathy67 · Oct 8, 2008, 10:09 AM

Forced air systems do not have radiators, you my have hot water system that needs to be bleed. Open the right or left side of the cover for the baseboard and see if there is a bleeder valve there. Some need a small bleeder wrench to open them up. Once the air is release close it and it should be ok

massplumber2008 · Oct 8, 2008, 11:16 AM

Neilcathy67 is correct here in that you describe a forced hot water system and the fact that you need to look under the radiator end covers for bleeder valve (see pic.).

There are a few different kinds of vents but basically the idea is to open the vent, use a cup and release water /air until all water flows into cup in a steady stream and then close vent.

Once air is removed you should begin to feel heat if heat system is running hot.

Let us know if need more info...

MARK

MFMARTINS15063 · Oct 8, 2008, 11:19 AM

I'm sorry, it's a steam heating system.

massplumber2008 · Oct 8, 2008, 11:23 AM

Steam..

Steam baseboard is available, but rare.. If you have steam baseboard be sure the baseboard is pitched with vent side highest in air...

Otherwise you may just need to change the steam vent that is present there now. I would suggest removing, bringing to home depot and getting new ADJUSTABLE vent. Also get some teflon tape so you can wrap threads before installing the new vent.

Try raising the end of baseboard with the vent on it... may need to go under the cover to raise fins..?

Let me know...

.

MFMARTINS15063 · Oct 8, 2008, 11:23 AM

... and there is no bleeder valve on the radiator

massplumber2008 · Oct 8, 2008, 03:09 PM

If this is a steam baseboard then it has to have a VENT. It has too, but they look like the vent below.

If you have nothing like this then we definitely found out why you don't get heat from the baseboard... NO VENT.

There should be a tapping somewhere that is plugged or you may need to have a tee installed in line so you can add a steam vent.

Look around again, be sure nothing like my pic. Is on baseboard.. let me know.

A picture of the baseboard would be great! Without cover on... ;)

MARK

MFMARTINS15063 · Oct 8, 2008, 03:26 PM

See the pics...
Thanks

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 8, 2008, 04:39 PM

All to often steam systems are confused with hot water heat. This looks like a hot water boiler system, judging form the piping. However, there should still have been a manual bleeder installed on the highest right side 90. Without shutting down the system, draining and adding a vent, my only easy fix recommendation would be to shake the register up and down (not so hard as to bend the pipe or break solder joints) in the attempt to free an air lock. Make sure that the system pump is running while you do this. It's a long shot, but it has worked for me before.
Has the register worked at all since installed. By the way, very poor installation, hope you didn't pay for it.
Give us some more pics of the piping leading to the register from under the floor and some at the boiler itself. The more pics the better. There are ways of curing this without tearing into the system, but only if the initial setup of the boiler was done correctly. Odds are the original setup was done about the same as this register, so you will most likely have to break into the system. If so, we can help as long as you know how to solder. If you do break into the system, I would add vents to any register that doesn't have them at this time. It will make restarting the system much easier.

massplumber2008 · Oct 8, 2008, 04:51 PM

Mygirlsdad... great answer and I rated it as such as well!

MFMARTINS... exactly as MGD suggested... except you seem to be sure that this is steam system! If this is in fact a steam system then you will never get heat from this baseboard. That is a residential forced hot water baseboard... not a steam baseboard.

Answer MGD's questions (especially if you ever got heat from this BB)... if this is forced hot water system then as suggested we may be able to show you how to purge air from system without cutting into the pipes.

Maybe take a pic. Of the boiler itself?

Thanks... MARK

MFMARTINS15063 · Oct 8, 2008, 06:56 PM

OK, I will take some pics of the boiler tomorrow, but I can't take any of the piping under the floor. The boiler however is a pretty old weil mclain, and I was told this was a steam system. None of the other cast-iron radiators have bleeds either, only shut-off valves. I will supply the model # of the boiler also. Thanks for the help so far.
And yes, I did pay for that connection, but that was the only one...

massplumber2008 · Oct 9, 2008, 03:54 AM

OK... but with that information... I'm still betting on this being a forced hot water system... ;) See if you can take pic. Of the boiler and of the pipes just as they come into the boiler...

Thanks...

MFMARTINS15063 · Oct 9, 2008, 06:47 AM

I will take the pics when I get home from work. I will also take pics of some radiators that are working. By the way, this radiator hasn't worked since it was installed. See you guys later.

massplumber2008 · Oct 9, 2008, 06:53 AM

Thanks...

MFMARTINS15063 · Oct 9, 2008, 02:53 PM

OK, here are the pics. The boiler is a model E-9 series 3.

mygirlsdad77 · Oct 9, 2008, 03:05 PM

I must admitt I don't know much about steam boilers, and this certainly doesn't look like your conventional hot water boiler.. But I would say it looks like a mess. I would seriously look at upgrading. Sorry I can't help you on this one. Going to leave it to massplumber and hope he has more advice for you. Good luck.

massplumber2008 · Oct 9, 2008, 03:53 PM

Hi MFMARTINS...

Well... that certainly is a steam system!!

That being said... are you maintaining the low water cutoff weekly or biweekly? The low water cutoff you have there is a mechanical float type low water cutoff that if not maintained properly will fail to shut the boiler in case of low water and you could lose the boiler (not that there is much to save there... ). You should be using the blue handled ball valve at the low water cutoff and you should be draining about 3-5 gallons off every week or so to clean the cutoff and replace water in the boiler.....let me know if you want to discuss this more..ok??

NOW... you did not post pics. Of working radiators. If they work they must have some manner that lets air escape from the radiator as this is how steam systems work. That is, that steam systems work by displacing air in radiators with steam... Air is displaced as steam works its way up to the radiator to be warmed and then when steam hits the vent the vents shut off... otherwise the room would fill with steam.. right?

So, for a steam radiator to work air must be displaced and there must be a vent... that is why the baseboard radiator you showed us doesn't work. In fact, that is a forced water baseboard you showed us and it is not meant to be used with a STEAM BOILER SYSTEM. The person that installed this was NOT a heat man... I promise.

You could try to have a vent installed on that baseboard radiator... however, I strongly recommend that you replace that baseboard with a USED steam radiator. Most larger plumbing companies have a few steam radiators out in the garage somewhere that they will sell you at a reduced rate... ;)

Even if you did get a vent installed in that forced water baseboard I'm sure it would do much of nothing unless BOTH pipes get pitched so water from the steam can flow back toward boiler. Even then I suspect that you would hear crazy expansion noises, banging, and finally spitting of water from the vent... this is simply not supposed to be done this way!!

Let me know what you think here... ok?

Would like to see you get this fixed... and again... don't be calling the guy that installed that baseboard... unless it is to have him rip out his work and refund your money!!

Get back to me with thoughts here... And if you could post a picture or two of working radiators it would help also.

MARK

MFMARTINS15063 · Oct 9, 2008, 04:50 PM

OK, sorry, here is a pic of a working radiator. I think I'm just going to replace this with a steam baseboard heater. However, will the copper piping be a problem? Also, will I have to tear up the floor to repair this? I really hope not.
As far as the low-water cut-off, I didn't know I had to maintain it weekly. I will do that effective immediately. The radiators that do work... how do I find parts for them? I'd like to replace the valves on them that turn them on/off, but how do I know what brand or model they are? Anyway...
Your answers helped me greatly, and now I will go to my local plumbing supply store and see if I can get a steam baseboard system. If not, then I'll start my search for a used radiator. Thanks again for all the help, both of you.

massplumber2008 · Oct 9, 2008, 05:23 PM

Hey again...

Can you post a pic. Of the other side of the radiator... just want to be sure of a couple things here.

Seems you have what in my area is pretty rare... You have a two-pipe steam system! These systems usually have steam traps. These traps are usually located at the radiator... Hmmmm..?

I also think the vent is on top of the shutoff in the pic. At radiator. Do these ever make hissing sound when activated? Let me know.

Post that final pic. For me... then we need to chat about maintenance and the new/used radiator! Until then...don't touch the blue ball valve at the low water cutoff..want to discuss this in detail!

Thanks... MARK

MFMARTINS15063 · Oct 9, 2008, 05:43 PM

I'll post that pic in a minute...
Do you happen to see the steam trap? And they do hiss, but not a lot. Know of any places in queens, ny where I can get a used radiator?