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arcura · Oct 10, 2008, 07:43 PM

Tj3,
I do hope that you will continue to remember that and find no need to ask AGAIN.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Oct 10, 2008, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
I do hope that you will continue to remember that and find no need to ask AGAIN.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, As long as you don't beat around the bush as you did initially, there is no need to ask again.

Tj3 · Oct 10, 2008, 08:05 PM

Another interesting example of two persons of the trinity is found here:

Gen 19:24-25
24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.
NKJV

The word "Lord" in each case is YHWH, so what it says is:

"Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens."

Two persons, one YHWH.

I'll never understand why people choose to ignore the doctrine of the trinity which is so clearly taught in scripture.

arcura · Oct 10, 2008, 09:16 PM

Tj3,
I also find it difficult to understand why so many people who claim to read the bible do not understand what the bible says and indicates about the three persons in one God trinity.
You do a very good job showing the many places the trinity is indicated.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay · Oct 11, 2008, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tj3

I'll never understand why people choose to ignore the doctrine of the trinity which is so clearly taught in scripture.

This is a favorite of mine.. Without a doubt the three in ONE

1 John 5: 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE. KJV

arcura · Oct 11, 2008, 05:32 PM

sndbay,
That is also a favorite of mine along with the command of Jesus to go out into the world baptizing people in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Oct 11, 2008, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
That is also a favorite of mine along with the command of Jesus to go out into the world baptizing people in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Both of those verses are good ones for Criado who thinks that there are many more persons in the Godhead.

arcura · Oct 11, 2008, 07:43 PM

Tj3.
Indeed!
Fred

Criado · Feb 28, 2009, 09:59 AM

I am back :) (and sadly for awhile again). It seems I did not missed much.

(Tj)
I am glad this thread is still open. I wish to comment your reply to my last reply but I prefer to be more straight forward since I have limited time.

Assuming for the sake of argument that the Jesus is the speaker, where's the spirit being YHWH?

(Sndbay)

1 John 5: 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE. KJV

Sadly, this is absent in Greek Manuscript. Assuming for the sake of argument that this does exist in the manuscript, there's no problem at all. The bible did not say they are the SAME.

In fact, there are "n" number of people in bible being called as ONE but are NOT the same entity/being.

Tj3 · Feb 28, 2009, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Criado

(Tj)
I am glad this thread is still open. I wish to comment your reply to my last reply but I prefer to be more straight forward since i have limited time.

Assuming for the sake of argument that the Jesus is the speaker, where's the spirit being YHWH?

Well, let's think about this for a moment. If you spirit is your, then why would God's spirit not be God.

arcura · Mar 1, 2009, 01:33 PM

Criado,
I believe that The Spirit was ans is always with Jesus as also the Father.
After all, they ARE a trinity of one being.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Criado · Mar 8, 2009, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Well, let's think about this for a moment. If you spirit is your, then why would God's spirit not be God.

If I have to follow this reasoning, what will make these Spirits not God as well? (Rev. 3:1; 4:5; 5:6)

BUT, actually, the focal point of my previous argument is not about the Godhood of the Spirit but about the sameness of the Spirit as YHWH.

Again, where can we find the Spirit as YHWH.

Criado · Mar 8, 2009, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

Criado,
I believe that The Spirit was ans is always with Jesus as also the Father.
After all, they ARE a trinity of one being.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I partly agree and mostly disagree.

Tj3 · Mar 8, 2009, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Criado

If I have to follow this reasoning, what will make these Spirits not God as well? (Rev. 3:1; 4:5; 5:6)

BUT, actually, the focal point of my previous argument is not about the Godhood of the Spirit but about the sameness of the Spirit as YHWH.

Again, where can we find the Spirit as YHWH.

There is a difference. Saying that the spirits of "of" God does not mean that these spirits are HIS spirit. However that is what Is 48:16-17 says. Further, Is 48 says that God and His Spirit send Jesus, indicating that they act with equal authority over Jesus (who is also God). These 7 spirits are mentioned another time which you omitted:

Rev 1:4-5
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
NKJV

Note that these spirits are before (or in front of) the throne. They do not have the authority of God.

Criado · Mar 8, 2009, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Tj3

There is a difference. Saying that the spirits of "of" God does not mean that these spirits are HIS spirit.

So, do you mean that when bible speaks of "Spirit of God", it has no authority of God while when it says "His Spirit " , then, it has equal authority with Father?

However that is what Is 48:16-17 says. Further, Is 48 says that God and His Spirit send Jesus, indicating that they act with equal authority over Jesus (who is also God). These 7 spirits are mentioned another time which you omitted:

Does equal authority means sameness?

Rev 1:4-5
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
NKJV

Note that these spirits are before (or in front of) the throne. They do not have the authority of God.

What makes these spirits without authority of God? Is it because they are not ON the throne?

Tj3 · Mar 8, 2009, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Criado

So, do you mean that when bible speaks of "Spirit of God", it has no authority of God while when it says "His Spirit " , then, it has equal authority with Father?

I'm saying that we need to look at the context and the specific references.

Does equal authority means sameness?

Not necessarily, but again look at the context. It is not just a spirit with equal authority - it is HIS spirit.

What makes these spirits without authority of God?

Already addressed.

Criado · Mar 8, 2009, 10:20 AM

Is this Spirit (mentioned in Isaiah) the same as the one sent in the Church as called the Comforter or the Holy Ghost?

Further, Is 48 says that God and His Spirit send Jesus, indicating that they act with equal authority over Jesus (who is also God).

Do you mean that the Father and His Spirit is greater than Jesus?

arcura · Mar 8, 2009, 11:37 AM

Criado,
Yes it is the same Holy Spirit.
None of the trinity is greater than the others.
They (all three) are equally God.
It can not be otherwise for The Holy Spirit emanates from the Father AND THE SON, and The Son is the eternal Word of God made flesh in the form of Jesus Christ.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Mar 8, 2009, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Criado

Is this Spirit (mentioned in Isaiah) the same as the one sent in the Church as called the Comforter or the Holy Ghost?

Yes.

Do you mean that the Father and His Spirit is greater than Jesus?

No. There are different roles, but all are equal.

Criado · Mar 8, 2009, 03:20 PM

How come Jesus said that the one sent is not greater than one who sent (John 13:16).

Kindly reconcile with your claim that they are equal. Where can we find that Bible said that They are equal?