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arcura · Oct 2, 2008, 09:15 PM

Apparently many folks in some towns did not.
The seeds were plentifully sown but the harvest was meager.
See here.
Today's Gospel (Lk 10:13-16): Jesus said, «Alas for you Chorazin! Alas for you Bethsaida! So many miracles have been worked in you! If the same miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would already be sitting in ashes and wearing the sackcloth of repentance. Surely for Tyre and Sidon it will be better than for you on the Judgment Day. And what of you, city of Capernaum? Will you be lifted to heaven? You will be thrown down to the place of the dead. Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me; and he who rejects me, rejects the one who sent me».
So IF you saw Jesus perform miracles would you believe?
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

Choux · Oct 2, 2008, 09:30 PM

It reads like Jesus is talking about changes of heart, spiritual miracle, people being saved from their old ways of thinking to Jesus' new way, the Kingdom of God Within. That is the only way him saying that they would be wearing the sackcloth of repentance. :)

arcura · Oct 2, 2008, 09:56 PM

Choux,
BUT...
If you saw Jesus working miracles would you believe?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

RickJ · Oct 3, 2008, 04:22 AM

Depends on the miracle. Remember the story of Moses and his staff that turned into a serpent? The others performed "miracles" too.

And I'm sure that some are or were convinced that Uri Geller performed "miracles"...

The prediction of the resurrection and it coming true... now that's a different story :)

michealb · Oct 3, 2008, 05:55 AM

Probably not just as I don't believe that David Copperfield actually flys on stage. Everything attributed to Jesus could be redone by a good magician. It would probably take him raising me from the dead or if he could heal amputees then I might believe it.

bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE · Oct 3, 2008, 05:57 AM

I don't need proof to believe.

arcura · Oct 3, 2008, 08:34 AM

RickJ
Many of the healings Jesus performed would be acctually impossible for a magician to perform.
The deaf heard, the sick were healed, the lame walked, the dead rose.
Fred

michealb · Oct 3, 2008, 08:42 AM

Not if the sick were in on it. Often traveling magicians will travel with many people who they pick out of the crowd supposidly at random to "heal".
Watch it done it modern time with people who are equally as primitive as people were in Jesus's time.
YouTube - supernatural revealed in india

RickJ · Oct 3, 2008, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

RickJ
Many of the healings Jesus performed would be acctually impossible for a magician to perform.
The deaf heard, the sick were healed, the lame walked, the dead rose.
Fred

Agreed... but the original question was general to "miracles". :)

Galveston1 · Oct 3, 2008, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by michealb

Probably not just as I don't believe that David Copperfield actually flys on stage. Everything attributed to Jesus could be redone by a good magician. It would probably take him raising me from the dead or if he could heal amputees then I might believe it.

Interesting that you mention amputees. Reports from the Azusa Street mission in 1909 or 1910 say that there were two or three occasions where amputated limbs were re-grown. Of course, all credit goes to Jesus Christ.

templelane · Oct 3, 2008, 10:44 AM

I really enjoyed the link michealb! Thanks for posting it. :)

michealb · Oct 3, 2008, 10:49 AM

Of which the only evidence for it isn't even first person it's all third person from a person who wrote a book call "They told me thier stories" It was supposidly the stories of the children who were at Azusa street.

I heal amputees all the time. See I can do that too. It's just that you don't believe me because I said I did it instead of god. Anything that you attribute to god you should ask for more evidence than something that is attributed to a man because at least you know the man exists.

Alty · Oct 3, 2008, 11:18 AM

I already believe, but if I witnessed an actual miracle then I would be able to say that God is fact.

But, like the others, it depends on the miracle, the circumstances, and whether I witnessed it first hand.

Many of the "miracles" discussed in the bible etc. well, they can be attributed to other things, or could just have been sensationalized by the people who wrote about it.

I have never witnessed a miracle, it would have been nice to. When my parents were dying of cancer I prayed for a miracle, a relatively simply one, cure them, make the cancer disappear. No such miracle. :(

Galveston1 · Oct 4, 2008, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by michealb

Of which the only evidence for it isn't even first person it's all third person from a person who wrote a book call "They told me thier stories" It was supposidly the stories of the children who were at Azusa street.

I heal amputees all the time. See I can do that too. It's just that you don't believe me because I said I did it instead of god. Anything that you attribute to god you should ask for more evidence than something that is attributed to a man because at least you know the man exists.

If the book you mention were the only record from that time and place, you would be justified in dismissing it out of hand. There are other records that have survived, especially in the history of several "Pentecostal" denominations, including the Assemblies of God, which is the largest world-wide and fastest growing of these denominations.

Afterthought: It was only 100 years ago. There should be some old newspaper stories archived somewhere. If you have a good computer and the time, you could do some interesting research and report back. You might even decide to write a book yourself.

michealb · Oct 4, 2008, 06:48 PM

Newpaper articles from the time mention nothing of healed amputees. The only record of healing amputees is from the book. All that I have read points to a Jim Jones type cult that didn't stay together as long and spun off into other churches. No miracles just people taking advantage of guilible people.

Choux · Oct 4, 2008, 07:36 PM

Fred, I don't believe in a Supernatural; the Natural World is wondrous and marvelous enough for me...

I don't believe Jesus was capable of doing miracles that go against Nature, but I believe that there were plenty of men capable of altering documents to suit their own ends. :)

arcura · Oct 5, 2008, 09:30 PM

michealb,
I understans what you are saying,
But I was speaking about all of the miracles Jesus performed.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

arcura · Oct 5, 2008, 09:44 PM

Many people who do not believe in miracles will go to great lengths to explain them away rather than accept the obvious.
The problem is that there are many fakes out there who are able to fool many people.
Preace and kindness,
Fred

michealb · Oct 5, 2008, 09:58 PM

I see it the other way.
Many people who do believe in miracles will go to great lengths to explain them rather than accept the obvious.

arcura · Oct 5, 2008, 10:31 PM

michealb,
The obvious I spoke of was REAL miracles which could not be faked and have been proven so many, many times.
Peace and kindness,
Fred