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Starman · May 22, 2006, 01:14 PM

If there were a self aware AI, what rights would you grant it?

CaptainForest · May 22, 2006, 01:34 PM

The same rights as a human if it could reasonably act like a regular human could.

RickJ · May 22, 2006, 02:23 PM

I would grant it none.

valinors_sorrow · May 22, 2006, 03:27 PM

I don't know about rights but as soon as you finish with it, could you send it over to my office - we are having a major intelligence deficiency there, it seems?? :D

NeedKarma · May 22, 2006, 03:29 PM

If we want to keep domination over the machines we would not grant them rights and we would keep a secret 'kill' code.

Chery · May 22, 2006, 03:51 PM

1. You have the right to a quartly oil-change.
2. You have the right to a clean closet with electrical soccet.
3. You have the right to the best possible replacement chips I can afford.
4. You have the right to a human-applied body shine, once every six months.
5. You have the right to collect all the intellectual input necessary to keep me happy.

Footnote: You have the right to pick your own tattoo.

Starman · May 23, 2006, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

If we want to keep domination over the machines we would not grant them rights and we would keep a secret 'kill' code.

I can understand your concern since one thing can definitely lead to another.
However, such a policy would make us morally inconsistent since it is our very ability to reason and self awareness that are put forth as the reasons we humans deserve rights. So the denial of the identical rights for an AI having our identical mental abilities would have to be justified on another criterion. The problem is that all other available criterion seem irrelevant to the issue.

For example, the material from which they are made is irrelevant. That we created them is also irrelevant since creation doesn't justify denial of rights based on sentience. Actually, the only way by which we could deny these machines their demands for equal rights would be to dehumanize them via striiping them of some of their abilities. But inflicting such a machine that way in itself might be considered a criminal act similar to a systematic lobotimization of human beings.

But I think the solution to this perhaps possible problem is to refrain from making them our emotional and mental equals in the first place. And as you said, always keep the upper hand by introducing fail safe or a termination code.

In my opinion

phillysteakandcheese · May 23, 2006, 09:03 AM

Artificial intelligence is just that - artificial.

A complex machine could certainly seem like it was "self-aware" and even demonstrate "thinking" to a degree, but it would always be artificial. I don't believe that a machine can ever truly be considered a "life form".

Plants and animals ... even clones ... grow.
Machines are manufactured.

I think "rights" are reserved for biological creatures only.

talaniman · May 23, 2006, 11:17 AM

If it is self aware how long before it figures out that you are not relevant and must be eliminated. Or that your resistance is futile. Think about that BEFORE you put the batteries in.:cool: :eek:

valinors_sorrow · May 23, 2006, 02:30 PM

Skipping the moral angle for a moment, I could easily grant it all that we have, knowing full well that we will always have something greater than they would.

It is simply unimaginable to me that humankind will ever duplicate the soul (and I am not meaning this is a religious sense, but from a far more pragmatic place). It is the soul that tempers the intellect with the heart, the knowledge with the wisdom, the right with the appropriate.

It is, by my reckoning, our greatest strength and one that each person on earth has in equal portion.

There are more relevant things to fear than this.

talaniman · May 23, 2006, 03:21 PM

And will your soul allow you to subjegate another and enslave them to do your bidding because you think that they have no soul?:cool:

valinors_sorrow · May 23, 2006, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

And will your soul allow you to subjegate another and enslave them to do your bidding because you think that they have no soul?:cool:

Good point, Talaniman!
And isn't that really what it all boils down to in the long run?

I would not have stomach for subjegation, which is why I said I would grant them all that we have. I was just trying to stress the "no fear" aspect of it more than the morality.

talaniman · May 23, 2006, 05:24 PM

For as much as I know about my soul if the toaster said "Hey man ,I got soul' I'd have to say Amen brother!:cool: ;)

DrJ · May 23, 2006, 05:43 PM

Im going to have to go withi Philly on this one...

Regardless of how much we can make it seem like inteliigence, it is still artificial. Sure, many can argue that our intelligence is artificial, as well. But there is an obvious underlying factor here... our instinct, for lack of a better word. Basically, we are born with natural intelligence... intelligence that we were born with... whether it was evolutionary from our genes or straight from our very souls in a prior Life.

Everything that we are taught now is bounced off our instincts before it is interpreted. A human cannot just be programmed to act a certain way (well, okay.. if you go into brainwashing, it is possible... but that's another thread). A human can be given information which it will then process against its instinct before it decides how to interpret it. You cannot program a machine to have this ability.

For humans, it is more than just black and white.

A machine can only calculate odds... it can only see black and white... it can only differentiate whether the black outweighs the white or vise versa... it cannot read gray.

valinors_sorrow · May 23, 2006, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by DrJizzle

it can only see black and white.... it can only differentiate whether or not the black outweighs the white or vise versa.... it cannot read gray.

What happens when the machine that can read grey is created? One that has a value system, perhaps one the rivals our instincts even, and an emotional make up that permits it to feel a kind of pain (albeit an artificial one) too?

In short, everything we are with the exception of soul?

Why wouldn't that be possible one day... or does this topic necessarily need to be limited to only what can be done now?

DrJ · May 23, 2006, 06:53 PM

Well, first we would have to agree upon what constitutes the ability of the soul? What does our soul do? What is its purpose? Does it, in fact, link us to a Higher Power? Through it, do we have the ability to ascertain Truth from Non-Truth? Does it carry with it lessons learned, emotions felt, wisdom attained from previous lives? Does it hold all the information gained over the course of mankind?

talaniman · May 23, 2006, 09:00 PM

If it had any intelligence what so ever it would eliminate man as being irrational!:cool: :eek:

Starman · May 24, 2006, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by phillysteakandcheese

Artifical intelligence is just that - artificial.

A complex machine could certainly seem like it was "self-aware" and even demonstrate "thinking" to a degree, but it would always be artificial. I don't believe that a machine can ever truely be considered a "life form".

Plants and animals ... even clones ... grow.
Machines are manufactured.

I think "rights" are reserved for biological creatures only.

How would we know it really isn't self aware if it gave all the signs of being self aware?

Animals are biological yet we breed them for food. Trees are biological and yet we cut them down to make furniture and other such things. Sometimes we even choose to let a forest burn when lightning sets it on fire. The Brazilians set fire to vast areas of Amazon forest in order to make charcoal and to clear the land for raising cattle and farming. In Vietnam, whole forests were denuded of foliage in order to deprive the North Vietnamese of cover.

The only right that creatures seem to have been given by man is the right not to be made to suffer unnecessarily because they share that ability with us and because of it deserve compassion.

But their inability to reason disqualifies them from having all our rights.
For example, animals live only in the present, they don't worry about the past or future. Even the present seems to be considered only for procreation or food seeking and territorial defense. Some playing takes place among mammals as preparation for adulthood but that's as far as their thinking goes. They don't ask why they are here or where they are going. Or even why they are different in appearance from us in fact monkeys don't even recognize that they are looking at themselves n the mirror since they treat their own reflection as if it were another monkey. It's this inability, this distance in intellect between us that causes us not to feel guilt when we use them as food. If animals could reason a we do, then our consciences would kick in and we'd refrain lest we violate a kindred creature's rights.

Take for example the hypothetical that we visit another planet and find creatures who
Are identical to our pigs but who have our same intelligence and have developed an
Advanced civilization, Though they be physically identical to our pigs we would not
Consider them food. They would be granted the same rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness as we demand for ourselves.

So it's really not so much about being manufactured or being biological, it has to d with thinking ability, self awareness.

Starman · May 24, 2006, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

And will your soul allow you to subjegate another and enslave them to do your bidding because you think that they have no soul?:cool:

I once read a SCI Fi short story about two alien extraterrestrial races that were in communication with one another and even traded goods now and the. The human space travelers arrived in their vicinity and found that one of the races had survived a supernova which showered both planets with deadly radiation. One of the alien races which knew that this supernova was about to occur took precautions and managed to survive. The other perished since they remained unaware of the impending disaster until it was too late. The human space travelers were baffled as to why the technologically superior race had not warned the other. When they asked them for an explanation they seemed baffled.

"Why should we have taken time to warn them? They are not of our kind. They were as nothing to us!"

talaniman · May 24, 2006, 05:44 AM

Sounds almost like they where almost human with the arrogance and uncaring that we have displayed over the centuries on Earth. You would think that intelligent beings would be a little more compassionate than your example. So would you surmise that the technological race who failed to warn the other race of impending disaster had a soul or not?:cool: :eek: