[sndbay]

In addition, if you are Catholic, you may pray to the Saints for intercession before God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Don't be deceived by false teaching, because Christ is by promise, the intercession vine to the Father forever.

Hebrews 7:24-28 But [this man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

___________________________________________

Romans 8: 34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

[Criado]

John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

That's right but it doesn't say "I and [my] Father are one and the same";)

[Tj3]

That's right but it doesn't say "I and [my] Father are one and the same";)

Depends upon what you means as "the same". If you mean that they are both God, scripture is very clear that they are both God. If you mean that they are the same person, then no, because there are three persons in the trinity and the Father and the Son are different persons but one and the same God.

[Criado]

Depends upon what you means as "the same". If you mean that they are both God, scripture is very clear that they are both God. If you mean that they are the same person, then no, because there are three persons in the trinity and the Father and the Son are different persons but one and the same God.

Same as not distinct; like, let say, mango and apple are both tree but they are not the same tree. Though, we cannot apply the "one" to those as Father and Jesus and Apostles are.

I also don't like the idea of the trinity [especially the Catholic's definition of it--I don't know how you define it though (I was onced a catholic that's why I know their definition of it)] for there are more than one spirit of God.

[De Maria]

Don't be deceived by false teaching, because Christ is by promise, the intercession vine to the Father forever.

Hebrews 7:24-28 But [this man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

___________________________________________

Romans 8: 34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Luke 16 24 And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me,.

Matthew 10 41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet, shall receive the reward of a prophet: and he that receiveth a just man in the name of a just man, shall receive the reward of a just man.

Matthew 10 42 And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.

James 5 20 He must know that he who causeth a sinner to be converted from the error of his way, shall save his soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Tj3]

Same as not distinct; like, let say, mango and apple are both tree but they are not the same tree. Though, we cannot apply the "one" to those as Father and Jesus and Apostles are.

Scripture is quite clear that the Father and the Son are two distinct persons, but one and the same God.

I also don't like the idea of the trinity [especially the Catholic's definition of it--I don't know how you define it though (I was onced a catholic that's why I know their definition of it)] for there are more than one spirit of God.

I am not a Catholic or Protestant. I use only the Biblical definition which existed long before any denomination existed. Indeed, I find it just as easy to substantiate the truth of the trinity from the OT as I do from the NT (maybe easier).

Whether you like what scripture says or not is not the point. What you or anyone else may like does not change what scripture says.

[Criado]

Scripture is quite clear that the Father and the Son are two distinct persons, but one and the same God.

I am not a Catholic or Protestant. I use only the Biblical definition which existed long before any denomination existed. Indeed, I find it just as easy to substantiate the truth of the trinity from the OT as I do from the NT (maybe easier).

Whether you like what scripture says or not is not the point. What you or anyone else may like does not change what scripture says.

.. I believe that they are both God but not the same God. Same God could mean Jesus is THE Father and Father is Jesus. Same God could also imply having equal power and knowledge.

I do not like idea of trinity not just because I don't like it but because the bible do not support it as it also metioned the 7 spirits of God. (Revelation 5:6) I believe these spirits are still part of the Godhood, thus, nullifying the concept of trinity.

[Tj3]

.. I believe that they are both God but not the same God.

That cannot be.

Isa 45:14
And there is no other;
There is no other God.'"
NKJV

Thus there is only one God and thus if Jesus is God and the Father is God, and they are distinct persons, we have two persons of the trinity.

I do not like idea of trinity not just because I don't like it but because the bible do not support it

Are you prepared to get into God's word to discuss what it does say about who God is, and who Jesus is?

as it also metioned the 7 spirits of God. (Revelation 5:6) I believe these spirits are still part of the Godhood, thus, nullifying the concept of trinity.

There is a difference between who God is and who these seven spirits are:

Rev 1:4-5
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
NKJV

Note that they are before His throne, they are not on the throne.

[sndbay]

Luke 16 24 And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me,...

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Matthew 10 41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet, shall receive the reward of a prophet: and he that receiveth a just man in the name of a just man, shall receive the reward of a just man.

Matthew 10 42 And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.

Sincerely,

De Maria

God's spokesman could know what to speak for Him only (1) from His Spirit (2) from Jehovah making Himself known (3) from God's written word. This is why Timothy is the only one called a "man of God" in the New Testament (1Tim. 6:11), and why, to-day, one, and only one who knows "all scripture", which is so profitable, can be called a "man of God" (2Tim. 3:17).

All such are God's spokesmen because they alone know what He wishes to be spoken. They are His witnesses (Acts 1:8; 22:15). Christ was THE prophet because He spoke only those things which were give Him to speak (see note on Deut. 18:18), and He alone is "the faithful Witness" (Rev. 1:5).

Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Prayer to the dead would not enable any benefits as spokeman for us today. And why would anyone choose to pray through anyone other then Christ ? Christ is worthy of all and He alone is the fruitful Witness.

Psalms 18.3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
Psalms 50:15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.
Psalms 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psalms 86:5 For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.
Psalms 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
Psalms 145:18 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

[Criado]

That cannot be.

Isa 45:14
And there is no other;
There is no other God.'"
NKJV

Thus there is only one God and thus if Jesus is God and the Father is God, and they are distinct persons, we have two persons of the trinity.

This before Jesus was intorduced (atleast) to the world.

Are you prepared to get into God's word to discuss what it does say about who God is, and who Jesus is?

Yes please; I would like to hear the discussion.

There is a difference between who God is and who these seven spirits are:

Rev 1:4-5
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
NKJV

Note that they are before His throne, they are not on the throne.

If that's the case, there is neither an indication in the Bible that the Holy Spirit (assigned to the Church) also sits in the throne. But like the Holy Spirit, these 7 spirits were also sent forth to the earth (Revelation 5:6).

[Tj3]

This before Jesus was intorduced (atleast) to the world.

Jesus has always been in existence.

Mic 5:2
2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting."
NKJV

Jesus was announced to the world long before, initially in Gen 3:15, and many times afterward. He was active in the pages of the Old Testament, and even spoke to a number of people in the Old Testament. He was also known as the Son of God in the Old Testament.

Prov 30:4
4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son's name,
If you know?
NKJV

Further God never changes:

Mal 3:6
6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
NKJV

Heb 13:7-9
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
NKJV

There was one God at the time that was written and there is still only one God (even after Jesus came to earth manifest in the flesh).

Mark 12:32-33
32 So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He.
NKJV

1 Tim 2:4-7
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
NKJV

Yes please; I would like to hear the discussion.

I did not ask if you would like to hear a discussion. I asked if you wanted to discuss it. If you do wish to discuss, then start a thread in the Religious Discussion area so that we do not risk hijacking this thread.

If that's the case, there is neither an indication in the Bible that the Holy Spirit (assigned to the Church) also sits in the throne. But like the Holy Spirit, these 7 spirits were also sent forth to the earth (Revelation 5:6).

Many being, angels, spirits and people were sent by God, but that does not mean that they are all God. The Holy Spirit has many attributes that belong solely to God. For example, the Hioly Spirit gives eternal life:

Ezek 37:13-14
14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it," says the LORD.' "
NKJV

Participated in creation:
Gen 1:1-3
1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. To the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
NKJV

Those other spirits are spirits who are obedient to God, but nowhere does scripture give them attributes of being God.

Let me know if you start that thread in the religious discussion area.

[Criado]

Jesus has always been in existence.

Mic 5:2
2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting."
NKJV

Jesus was announced to the world long before, initially in Gen 3:15, and many times afterward. He was active in the pages of the Old Testament, and even spoke to a number of people in the Old Testament. He was also known as the Son of God in the Old Testament.

Prov 30:4
4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son's name,
If you know?
NKJV

Further God never changes:

Mal 3:6
6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
NKJV

Heb 13:7-9
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
NKJV

There was one God at the time that was written and there is still only one God (even after Jesus came to earth manifest in the flesh).

Mark 12:32-33
32 So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He.
NKJV

1 Tim 2:4-7
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
NKJV

It is undeniable true that Jesus existed even before. That why I added "(atleast)" to the world. But it's not clear to me how come you can say that they are distinct and yet the same. Do you mean that Jesus is ALSO the Father; and the Father is ALSO Jesus?

Many being, angels, spirits and people were sent by God, but that does not mean that they are all God. The Holy Spirit has many attributes that belong solely to God. For example, the Holy Spirit gives eternal life:

Ezek 37:13-14
14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it," says the LORD.' "
NKJV

Participated in creation:
Gen 1:1-3
1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. To the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
NKJV

Those other spirits are spirits who are obedient to God, but nowhere does scripture give them attributes of being God.

Let me know if you start that thread in the religious discussion area.

Nor did the scripture deny them the attributes of God... So how can you dismiss the fact that they can still be part of the Godhood.

I did not ask if you would like to hear a discussion. I asked if you wanted to discuss it. If you do wish to discuss, then start a thread in the Religious Discussion area so that we do not risk hijacking this thread.

Please create one as I am not really good in creating new discussion/thread.

[Tj3]

It is undeniable true that Jesus existed even before. That why I added "(atleast)" to the world.

However, even that statement is proven false by scripture as I indicated in my previous post. So if you accept that Jesus is God, and the Father is God, then you must acknowledge the trinity is true, even if you do not understand it.

But it's not clear to me how come you can say that they are distinct and yet the same. Do you mean that Jesus is ALSO the Father; and the Father is ALSO Jesus?

First of all, I did not use the word "same" because of its ambiguity. That is why I originally asked you what you meant by the word same in this context. To avoid mis-understanding, let's stick to the less ambiguous description that they are three distinct persons, yet one God. And no, if they are distinct persons, then the Father cannot be Jesus but they are all one God.

If you are trying to understand the precise nature of an infinite almighty God who is outside of space and time, then you are going to have problems. Remember that if you perfectly understood how this could all be, and if you perfectly understood the nature of such a being, then God would be a being who is no greater than yourself, and thus would not be God, What is important is that we accept what He tells us about Himself in His word. After all, who knows God's nature better than God?

Nor did the scripture deny them the attributes of God... So how can you dismiss the fact that they can still be part of the Godhood.

Actually, scripture is quite clear that there is a difference when it speaks of the Holy Spirit (which is singular and spoken of as God), and these seven spirits which are spoken of no differently than angels.

I trust that you know that to claim someone to be God simply because scripture does not explicitly state that they are not is a defined logic fallacy. If you go through scripture from end to end, scripture will rarely state explicitly that individuals are not God, simply because there is only one God, and scripture has stated who God is. It does not need to go through and every time a new individual comes up, and state that they are not God because anyone who scripture does not indicate is God either through specific reference or attributes that only God has, we can say is not God.

[Tj3]

Please create one as I am not really good in creating new discussion/thread.

The new discussion is here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ml#post1305854

[spurgeon687]

Because of mans sinfulness we cannot approach God the Father directly. This is why we need a saviour and an intersessor who is worthy and sinless so He can be our advocate. Christ lived the perfect life we cannot live and died in our place of His people. He rose from the dead because He was sinless. When we are "in Christ" we live in Him and through Him and this is our access to God the Father. This is why all other religions that do not provide a sinless perfect advocate fall short in their attempts to reach God.

[arcura]

carla123
When Christians pray to God they usually pray to Him who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit trinity unless they pray to Jesus Christ, The Father, or the Holy Spirit personally.
When we pray the Lord's Prayer we are praying to the Father who is in heaven.
When I pray I usually end with, "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen."
Generally speaking, I believe most Christians pray in that way.
How do you pray?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[loveworthall]

Its always better to go to the scriptures then just follow any mans doctrine or organization.



At the very beginning we see that there were more than one!



Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."





John 17:5

Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.



According to Gods Word how are God and His son the same? Could it be the representation of His nature?



Hebrews 1:1-3

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

In these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,



Jesus represents His Father like we are supposed to represent Jesus! But we are not Jesus. But He is supposed to be seen in us so, to people!! They could say of us that they see Jesus in us when we show Jesus's nature of love because we represent Him.



2 Corinthians 5:20

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.



2 Peter 1:3-5

Seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,



John 17:22-23

The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.





We know Jesus is not the Holy spirit because He says



John 16:7

"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.



Who is the helper?



John 14:26

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.



John 15:26

"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,



So God is in heaven on the throne and Jesus sits on his right hand side of Him, and the Holy Spirit is helping us. pretty simple if you read the Word of God. all the same nature!!!! but three distinct persons.



We know the Son and Father are two persons, check out the scriptures where the son will hand everything over to the Father when He is done with the rule that God gave Him



1 Corinthians 15:24-28

then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET But when He says, "All things are put in subjection, " it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.



Once again!!



Hebrews 1

And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,



Jesus represents His Father like we are supposed to represent Jesus!! but we are not Jesus. but He is supposed to be seen in us so, to people!!! they could say of us that they see Jesus in us when we show Jesus's nature of love because we represent Him.



Mark 13:32

" But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.



Matthew 3:15-17

But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him. After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."







The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father even though the Father is not the Son.

We are not the Son and the Son is not us even though the Son lives in us, Christ is seen in us and the Father is seen in Christ. Representations of each other. I am not Jesus but He lives in me.



John 10:38

But if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”



Galatians 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

1 John 4:13-16

By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.



John 14:17

That is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.



1 Corinthians 3:16

Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?



1 Corinthians 6:19

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?



John 15:4

Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.



Colossians 1:27

To whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.



Jesus is talking about and to His Father, not to Himself

Matthew 7:21

“ Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Matthew 10:32-33

“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 11:25

[ Come to Me ] At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants.

Matthew 11:27

All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.



Matthew 26:39

And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”

Mark 14:36

And He was saying, “ Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.”

Luke 2:49

And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father's house?”



Luke 10:22

All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”



Luke 22:29

And just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you



Luke 22:42

Saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”



John 5:36

[ Witness of Works ] But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.



John 5:37

[ Witness of the Father ] And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.



John 6:37

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.



John 6:44

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.



John 8:16

But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me.



John 8:28

So Jesus said, “When you lift the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.



John 8:42

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.



John 8:54

Jesus answered, “ If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';



John 10:17

For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.



John 10:18

No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

What Christ says the Lord God does for Him!



Isaiah 50:4-7

The Lord GOD has given Me the tongue of disciples,

That I may know how to sustain the weary one with a word.

He awakens Me morning by morning,

He awakens My ear to listen as a disciple.

The Lord GOD has opened My ear;

And I was not disobedient

Nor did I turn back.

I gave My back to those who strike Me,

And My cheeks to those who pluck out the beard;

I did not cover My face from humiliation and spitting.

For the Lord GOD helps Me,

Therefore, I am not disgraced;

Therefore, I have set My face like flint,

And I know that I will not be ashamed

[loveworthall]

I was just answering the oneness guy, please forgive me from straying from the subject

[davif]

Jesus was in the flesh. That's why his father was greater. But when he got ready to descend he said ALL power is given to me in heaven and earth. So if they wherr different people now God wouldn't have power in heaven. Jesus is God Almighty.

[mweihe]

Think about it this way: Due to our lack of the actual sense which might be able to fully understand an infinite God. God sent his "Son" Jesus so we could have a fixed reference to his character here in time. Kind of like a fisherman pointing out fact of wetness to his catch.Oh am I really wet ? Said the Tuna. God the Father who lives outside of time is always available to listen to any conversation or prayer with unlimited attention to detail because he can never waste time doing so , just as a fisherman at sea can never waste any wetness. In this way of thinking God and Jesus are the same being , just inside of time and outside of time they appear to the limited human consciousness as two being but are in fact the same identity .