[MoonlitWaves]

Within the past 2 weeks I have gained a greater understanding of faith through fiction entertainment. Or rather the better thing to say is I gained better understanding of why God requires faith.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:6

Having a strong faith in God and believing in Him whole heartedly, I never had a problem with the requirement of faith by God. I also never had any problems understanding why God requires faith either. I understand it with the knowledge that if you take away faith you take away the choice to love God freely. And since God wants us to love Him of our own free will, He requires faith.

But I also received an even greater understanding by, believe it or not, a movie and a book.

I was watching Constantine for a second time and caught something on the second go round. Though this movie is fiction entertainment the words of a little piece of dialogue in this movie never rang truer. This is not verbatum, but rather the gist. Keanu Reeves was not a priest but excerised demons in this movie. Near the end he was speaking to the angel, who if I am not mistaken was Gabrielle. Constantine knew he was going to hell and asked Gabrielle why the work he did was not good enough to get him into heaven. Gabrielle told him it was because God required belief in Him. Constatine said he does believe in God. Gabrielle said, "No, you KNOW God is real!"

It took me a moment because like most people's first thoughts, mine was, if he KNOWS how could he not believe? But then I realized that KNOWING something to be true and real does not mean that you believe in it.

The second is a quote from the book I just finished reading minutes ago, The Shack By William P. Young. On page 189 God talking to Mack says, "Faith does not grow in the house of certainty."

The words from both the movie and book are so true, but never had I thought of faith that way. As I said before, I always understood why faith was required, but now I have a better understanding of the IMPORTANCE of faith. It is that IMPORTANCE that makes faith in God a requirement.

Many people who lack faith in God seem to view faith as God playing a game. He has the power to prove Himself, to let us literally see Him, hear Him, touch Him so we can KNOW he is true and real; yet He won't do it in such a blunt fashion as they wish Him to because He requires faith. Many of them that I have come across believe He is cruel because He is willing to lose some of the children he created and loves to eternity in hell for the sake of faith when He can keep that from happening by simply showing Himself in the blunt fashion they wish for.

And so I remind them that people walked with, talked with and even saw Jesus' miracles first hand and some of them still didn't believe. What makes you think you will be any different than them? The mind has the ability to discredit even the most obvious things!

So what is my point? Faith in God is not just about believing He exists and is real, but it is about believing in ALL that He is. It is about believing in His ways, His truth, His intentions, in the goodness and way He means for things to be.

It really is quite simple and I am surprised I never thought of this before. I suppose because of my strong faith and love for God believing in ALL that He is just came with it. I find it astounding that knowing doesn't bring faith, but rather faith brings certainty!

So what I want to know is if I am missing out any deeper knowledge and understanding of faith? Do any of you have anything further? By all means I am asking for my mind to be blown away!

[Galveston1]

Excellent article. Hopefully this will cause some to do some serious thinking.

[sndbay]

What I have found within free will is a love for God. The grace of God is His love for us, and that love was given to us in Christ. Love is the greatest of all. When you love God above all, in the fullness of heart, there is no other known greater then Him.

God uses Abraham's faith as an example. Abrahams's love for God never doubted. Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

The word [might] in this scripture is stated as the assurance for us to know Abraham himself could not make himself the father of many nations. Abraham never doubted what God could do or would do. Scriptures uses Sarah womb as an example also, all is possible with God, and God's promise never forsakes.

Romans 4:20-21 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised, He was able also to perform.

Love from God is grace.. Grace is His Son Jesus, yet it is God's love for His children

Gal 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

This last scripture tells us none greater here on earth then what John was, because all glory and honor are greater to those in the Kingdom of God. We can not substitute our love for God to anything here on earth.

Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Some people do realize there is a God, but the reality of God would be to love Him. To be thankful for all that He gives us, and be with Him within your heart at all times knowing He is present with you.

[gromitt82]

You are absolutely right! The point is that more often than not we can't see the forest from the trees. We do not need any faith to accept or believe in what we know is real. No merit whatsoever in that. As it has no merit either loving those who love you. Jesus tells us “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28).
GOD is an abstraction we cannot even begin to understand. Consequently we can only believe in IT by way of our faith. GOD, as you point out, has the power to prove Itself in any way IT chooses. Whether GOD appears as a burning Bush or as a thundering voice speaking to Moses or in any other way this is nothing but a very simple materialization of His power. And it may help to strengthen our faith, which normally is rather weak, and welcomes any help.
We also believe in Jesus Christ! But this is rather easy for we know throughout History that Jesus did exist and therefore we believe in HIM as we believe in Jules Cesar.
But it takes a lot of faith to believe in Jesus Christ as GOD incarnate and HIS Son too. A wonderful mystery which we cannot understand so we can only accept through our faith.
But, other than that, it takes all the faith in GOD we can gather to absorb abstract perceptions as Eternity, Infinite, Allmighty, Timeless, Ubiquitous and Creator of the Universe…
This is why W.P. Young makes GOD say “Faith does not grow in the house of certainty.”
Today. Thousands of scientists are toying with the Hadron Collider in Geneva to recreate the origin of the Big Bang… It has taken years and billions to built that accelerator.
But do we fully realize that GOD is the actual responsible of that Big Bang or whatever other eventual origin of our Universe?
Only Faith can allow us to accept GOD's unexplainable and undescribable essence!

[sndbay]

Believing in God is only one part, Reality is to Love God Above All

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[cogs]

Moonlit waves... I attempted to believe that god was a very real person. Because I thought, if the bible was a true book, then god really is still alive. If he is still alive, then he must be able to work in our lives just as intimately as he did then. Then I found this website, and I believe it is now possible to walk with god.

The Way to Righteousness

[gromitt82]

Cog, if you don't mind my saying so I would say you are a little confused as to what the word GOD actually means or implies. If you just look at the dictionary you will find more or less the following description:
“God is the principal or sole deity in religions and other belief systems that worship one deity.
God is most often conceived of as the creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, jealousy, supernatural, and eternal and necessary existence.”
Consequently, you can hardly say GOD is still alive, for GOD is eternal, which means GOD was NEVER born and will NEVER die.
When GOD created man GOD made him free to choose his destiny. GOD gave him a set of rules and told him to follow them if he really wanted to enter one day GOD's Kingdom… As simple as that!
GOD, in HIS Omniscience and Omnipresence knows everything that goes on in our Earth and in the rest of the zillion of stars of our Universe. Which does not necessarily mean that GOD interferes in what is going on in our world or in each one of us.
GOD can do it, of course, if GOD deems it convenient, but DOES NOT have to.
God owes nothing to us. We owe EVERYTHING WE ARE AND WE HAVE TO GOD…

[cogs]

I understand that god is eternal. God has a plan for us that is not evident by outward signs, so I'm explaining that people forget god is even alive, due to his invisibility, and lack of physical evidence.
God does not have to interfere with us, but he has, and will continue to interfere. He wants to complete his plan for us, part of which has already finished, the atonement through jesus. Another part remains unfinished, that of our sanctification through his spirit.

[gromitt82]

i understand that god is eternal. god has a plan for us that is not evident by outward signs, so i'm explaining that people forget god is even alive, due to his invisibility, and lack of physical evidence.
god does not have to interfere with us, but he has, and will continue to interfere. he wants to complete his plan for us, part of which has already finished, the atonement through jesus. another part remains unfinished, that of our sanctification through his spirit.

One aspect we should be very careful with is when we tend to categorically affirm that GOD's designs are known to us. I may be wrong, of course, but I think that it is some kind of presumption on our side to pretend we can say GOD will do this or had done that... Like it is when some claim how GOD can let natural disasters to happen that normally represent the loss of thousands of human lives, like the recent earthquake in China...
I believe we should be more humble and accept that we know nothing about GOD's plans with regard to Mankind.
We know GOD sent His Son to redeem us, BUT we seem to ignore how little attention we have paid to this wonderful miracle ever since! Instead, we keep critizicing and analyzing GOD as if this was at all possible.
When I watch. At night, the marvelous show of the firmament I cannot help wondering how can we even try to speculate with anything regarding its Creator, without considering that this Creator has to be even bigger than the Universe... Think of that!

[cogs]

we can't neglect the message of scripture, that deals with a transformation:
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your spiritual service.
Rom 12:2 And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

by what method are we able to achieve this transformation?

Eze 11:18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence.
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh;
Eze 11:20 that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:
Rom 8:8 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I believe the reason some will be condemned, is because they have not dealt with the inherent problem of the carnal mind, which is evident through the actions of the flesh. In other words, they were not transformed already, by the purification of their spirit, to match that of the spirit of god, who is the one who transforms us to become like him, if we allow him to do that work within us.

[gromitt82]

Cog,
I can see you are an infatigable and tireless searcher of explanations to what are we supposed to be doing here. This is fine. Better to investigate that being indiferent.
However, some questions are awfully difficult to understand and assimilate or absorb.
Just consider that hundreds of exegetes and theologians spend tneir lives trying to find reasonable explanations to many obscure questions that have been bothering them for centuries.
Well. That is their job as Bible scholars!
But for more plain people as I am and I think you are, the best way to understand GOD is to just follow HIS Commandments as well as we can, without posing us too many difficult questions.
Remember that, eventually, we shall know ALL the answers to the most difficult questions...
It is, in a way, like debating who is going to be the next President of the USA. In 50 days we shall ALL know, no matter what we think now.
However, I understand that the study of the Scriptures is fascinating and though I hate to admit it, I'm also tremendously interested in it.

[cogs]

In simple terms, I don't think christians really understand what it means to walk with god. You can try to keep commandments. You can pray. There comes a point that you'll probably get bored with that.

*edit* please read my previous post, as the bible verses explain the further purpose of jesus, working in our hearts through god's spirit. His new covenant is not just obeying the commandments of scripture, but an actual transformation of our hearts, minds, and lives.

[gromitt82]

in simple terms, i don't think christians really understand what it means to walk with god. you can try to keep commandments. you can pray. there comes a point that you'll probably get bored with that.

*edit* please read my previous post, as the bible verses explain the further purpose of jesus, working in our hearts through god's spirit. his new covenant is not just obeying the commandments of scripture, but an actual transformation of our hearts, minds, and lives.

I agree with you that MANY of us (nor ALL, thanks GOD) do not perhaps really understand what it actually means to walk with GOD as you say. But if we don't is simply because our Faith is not strong enough. We can pray, but our prayers are sort of rutine and hundrum. We can try to keep the Commandments but, more often than not, we also try to adapt them to our own interests or are too lenient when interpreting them. In short, you are right, that the ideal we should ALL be aiming at is "the transformation of our hearts, minds, and lives."
But, I hope you will concede me that thist is extremely difficult and only those who have the spirituality of saints may succeed.
I'm just remembering what St. Augustine's initial life was like. This is perhaps why he is one of the greatest saints ever.

[cogs]

I agree with you that MANY of us (nor ALL, thanks GOD) do not perhaps really understand what it actually means to walk with GOD as you say. But if we don't is simply because our Faith is not strong enough. We can pray, but our prayers are sort of rutine and hundrum. We can try to keep the Commandments but, more often than not, we also try to adapt them to our own interests or are too lenient when interpreting them. In short, you are right, that the ideal we should ALL be aiming at is "the transformation of our hearts, minds, and lives."
But, I hope you will concede me that thist is extremely difficult and only those who have the spirituality of saints may succeed.
I'm just remembering what St. Augustine's initial life was like. This is perhaps why he is one of the greatest saints ever.

Oh yes, it's the hardest thing we will ever do. That's why I agree that the word of god strikes at the deepest part of us, and like a consuming fire, purges us of impurities. It's not fun at all. You can see how my perspective of everything church and religious is overshadowed by this individual work we would be doing. That's why I was talking about commandments and prayers. My search, as you say, is in finding out what god is saying to me internally, supported by the bible. It's very hard, takes patience, and diligence. But honestly, christians, of all denominations, I believe this one spirit that speaks to us will stop the divisions, and unite us in one mind.

[gromitt82]

oh yes, it's the hardest thing we will ever do. that's why i agree that the word of god strikes at the deepest part of us, and like a consuming fire, purges us of impurities. it's not fun at all. you can see how my perspective of everything church and religious is overshadowed by this individual work we would be doing. that's why i was talking about commandments and prayers. my search, as you say, is in finding out what god is saying to me internally, supported by the bible. it's very hard, takes patience, and diligence. but honestly, christians, of all denominations, i believe this one spirit that speaks to us will stop the divisions, and unite us in one mind.

Saints were not made in one day, so AMEN to all you say!