[allwebb]

Are there any legal ways of determining if an employee is a US citizen and/or able to work in the US prior to hiring on the application?

[RickJ]

Here's a page that's got the I-9, which is where you document the verification of eligibility.

It's a pdf to download that's too big to attach here.

Page 3 of it lists the acceptable documentation that verifies eligibility:

Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification

[J_9]

I thought brith cretificate and social security card would work on this issue too. Correct me if I am wrong though.

[RickJ]

The terms the DoHS uses are "identity" and "eligibility". The SS card and Birth Certificate verify Eligibility, but other things are required to establish "identity".

That form's got 3 lists:
1. 10 acceptable documents that verify identity AND eligibility,
2. 12 that verify Identity, and
3. 7 that verify eligibility.

It says that unless it's docs from the first list, then docs from both of the other two need to be verified.

[ScottGem]

Are there any legal ways of determining if an employee is a US citizen and/or able to work in the US prior to hiring on the application?

My question here is why you think it would be illegal to do so? The following is from the I-9:

All U.S. employers are responsible for completion and retention of Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must verify the employment eligibility and identity documents presented by the employee and record the document information on the Form I-9. Acceptable documents are listed on the back of the form, and detailed below under "Special Instructions."

Clearly it would be illegal NOT to determine an applicant's ability to work in the US.

[RickJ]

I don't understand. I understand that allwebb recognizes the need to verify, so is asking what the legal (proper, acceptable) way to do it is.

[Starman]

It's not that our employers lack legal effective ways of determining who was and who wasn't a citizen, it's simply that they find it profitable not to use those methods. If they did, then they would be deprived of the cheap labor which the illegal aliens represent. This brings to mind what one of an employer said to an employee after he had asked for a raise.

"Money can make people act in very strange ways."

Next day the employee was fired.

[mr.yet]

The legal way determine by the government list in the cities.

Re:Citizenship/Jurisdiction Cites

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"There is in our political system [two governments], a government of the Several [50] States, and a government of the United States. Each is distinct from the other and has citizens of its own. A person may be a citizen of the United States and of a State, and as such have different rights." U.S. v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542, 23 L.Ed. 588.



Volume 20: Corpus Juris Sec. § 1785: "The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state". NY Re: Merrian, 36 N.E. 505 1441 S.CT. 1973, 41 L.Ed. 287.



The United States is defined as "A Federal Corporation" in the United States Code, Title 28 - Judiciary and Judicial Procedure, Subchapter A - Definitions and general provisions, § 3002 - Definitions, at number 15 (a).



"The United States Government as such is fictitious and thus includes the States Government." Blacks Com. 133, Bouvier`s law dictionary, page 1215 (1914).



Also, in the Internal Revenue Code, Title 26, the United States is defined as "the District of Columbia," which is in Washington D.C. This is confirmed in the US Constitution, in Article I, § 8; the jurisdiction of the United States is "over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square)," and is also over federal territories purchased by the federal government. Washington D.C. is not a state.



"The District of Columbia is not a `state' within the meaning of the constitution." U.S. v. Virginia, 1805