[sndbay]

snbay,

Now how did i know we wouldn't agree? ;) oh well lets agree to disagree. I think you are goofy but your heart is right...i guess the scripture in Amos is correct...how can two walk together except they agree? We would NOT be able to walk together..cuz your wrong and I'm right and I'd have to tell ya.....lol :)

How are you girl???

I remember.. You live by faith in grace alone. And the old law isn't really important :cool:
When I believe in the law as the lamp and light of Christ. I believe you have to walk as one with Christ always working to do whats right. :)
2 Sa 22:29 For thou art my lamp, O LORD: and the LORD will lighten my darkness.
Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Hey do you still trust in eating anything, and that God made all foods clean in Acts.

My vote remains the same.. God was speaking of the Gentiles coming to Peter.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Nice to see you back.. Note I still have shown Truth in scripture.

[cogs]

The story of lazarus and the rich man is a parable. It was meant to show the faithlessness of the jews, and how even if jesus did rise from the dead, they wouldn't believe the old testament prophets who said jesus was coming.
2Cr 5:6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Cr 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:}
2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
This does not say, 'when I am absent from the body, I'm present with the lord'. Paul is saying that his hope is to be with the lord, instead of on earth. But since he's on earth, he'll carry on god's work, until he can be in heaven, at the resurrection of the dead.

[DrJ]

Because the same chapter of Luke16 the richman requested that they send someone back from the dead to tell his brothers, because he wanted them to know the truth. That doesn't happen for the same reason today. We are suppose to live from the example wrtten in scripture.. Converting to the child of God in obedience, doing the will of God.

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying here...

I don't mean to say that they actually ARE the dead people or their spirits...

I mean to say that if God appeared to Moses as a burning bush, maybe He also appears to us... but as the familiar face of someone who has passed on.

Obviously, He can't appear to us in His true form, or lack thereof, so He must appear in some way... maybe these days, He appears to us as the spirit of someone we knew, or didn't know, that died?

[cogs]

I don't believe he would appear to us like that, because it's confusing. God can work inside of us, so he can make known his will to us without visibility. God is the god of order, and there should be no doubt when he speaks to us.

[DrJ]

Maybe there "should" be no doubt... but unfortunately, there is likely always doubt. I don't care who you are, you cannot say that you have always been 100% positive every time God has tried to tell you something or show you something in your life.

And regardless of what we choose to believe on a personal level, there is plenty of scripture that shows God appearing to man in many different ways so obviously, He does tend to do that.

[sndbay]

I dont think you are understanding what I am saying here...

I dont mean to say that they actually ARE the dead people or their spirits...

I mean to say that if God appeared to Moses as a burning bush, maybe He also appears to us... but as the familiar face of someone who has passed on.

Obviously, He can't appear to us in His true form, or lack thereof, so He must appear in some way... maybe these days, He appears to us as the spirit of someone we knew, or didnt know, that died??

The Lord has gone to great length in scripture to tell us He will return again but only on the Lord's Day. He also tells us not to be deceived by false lies. We know the signs He has given, and should watch for what God has foretold us. Do Not be deceived! At the present time we have the Holy Ghost with us in comfort...

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Posted as necessary answer but it is off the original topic discussion.

[classyT]

How are you girl???

I remember.. You live by faith in grace alone. And the old law isn't really important :cool:
When I believe in the law as the lamp and light of Christ. I believe you have to walk as one with Christ always working to do whats right. :)
2 Sa 22:29 For thou art my lamp, O LORD: and the LORD will lighten my darkness.
Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Hey do you still trust in eating anything, and that God made all foods clean in Acts.

My vote remains the same.. God was speaking of the Gentiles coming to Peter.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Nice to see you back.. Note I still have shown Truth in scripture.

Hey... munchin on some bacon even as I type... lol. I've been reading your work. YEP... you are been busy... with your "truth". I give you this much... you do know the scripture and in today's world.. that is very impressive. Now, if I can just get you to interrupt it correctly... hee hee. ;)

[DrJ]

The Lord has gone to great length in scripture to tell us He will return again but only on the Lord's Day. He also tells us not to be deceived by false lies. We know the signs He has given, and should watch for what God has foretold us. Do Not be deceived! At the present time we have the Holy Ghost with us in comfort...

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Posted as necessary answer but it is off the original topic discussion.

So then you are saying that God speaks to NO ONE anymore? Because He will NOT return until "The Lords Day"? Anyone claiming to is being deceived by false prophets, right?

[sndbay]

I give you this much...you do know the scripture and in today's world..that is very impressive. Now, if I can just get you to interrupt it correctly...hee hee. ;)

Only one answer to that.. John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

[saintjoan]

The Bible condemns necromancy:
Deuteronomy 18:9-14 9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. (one who prays to the dead) 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. 14For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

King Saul was killed by God when he attempted to contact, Saul, a dead saint.
1 Chronicles 10:13-14 13So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; 14And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

Believers are not to try to contact the dead.

[Patriarch]

Why does seeing spirits of the dead have to be an act of the Devil? Couldn't it be God speaking to to people, too? What better way for Him to reach us than through the image of a familiar face?

God speaks to us today mainly through his Word the Bible. He also speaks through his spirit and congregation. But one has to examine their religion to see if it has God's approval, otherwise how you are taught the Bible, the spirit you may sense and the religion of which you are a member may be from the Devil. Even if it seems holy. God has never spoken to his servants on earth through a dead person, mainly because they are dead of course. Death is the opposite of life. To live is to breathe, eat, talk, move and express emotion. To die is to stop breathing, eating, thinking, talking, moving, or feeling anything.

The notion of spirits communicating with people has always come from pagan religion, not true christian religion.

[cogs]

The bible is dead as well. It cannot speak. However, what is alive can speak, and god's spirit is alive. Then, he will speak his word. His word is what he makes known to you by his spirit. We are alive, so he knows what to speak to us. Just like he spoke to the writers of scripture. So what they wrote should agree with what we hear from god.

[DrJ]

Its funny the way people try to spin things.

We are not talking about praying to dead people...

We are not talking about God re-animating dead bodies to speak to people...

It's a simple concept. God may speak to people through the vision/apparition of someone who has died.

How can we say that He hasnt/doesnt?

I don't understand why Christians have this issue with new miracles. Why can't there be anymore miracles? Why can't God still speak to us? Why do they always assume it is the act of the Devil or some evil spirit if anyone post-Bible experiences that?

If God were to appear to you today, what do you think He would look like? Do you think He would show up in His natural form and expect you to fathom what was happening?

Don't you think its possible that He would appear to you as your dead relative, whom you loved and respected? Seems like it would be a pretty good idea.

So back to the OP, I think it is highly possible for us to see "ghosts" or "apparitions". Yes, they MAY be evil or demons or something else... but don't rule out that it may be someone else trying to guide you down the right path.

After all, even in the Bible, not ALL who died remained dead ;)

[cogs]

It's just this type of thinking satan would use to deceive someone, especially when their faith is vulnerable after a death. You yourself can spin it however you want, as do deceivers. However, yes, I totally believe in current day miracles. Jesus said to let the dead bury the dead, because he's interested in life, not the dead coming to life. And if you wonder about the resurrection, that can only happen if the people to resurrect are dead, not alive. And that's not to send a message of repentance or comfort to someone, it's to keep them alive forever.

[DrJ]

Ya know those kinds of people that never really listen to what someone is saying but rather just await their turn to respond? Wait... what am I saying? OF COURSE you do.

Anyway, I hate to repeat myself once again... but I'm still not talking about "the dead coming to life".

And what was this: "and if you wonder about the resurrection, that can only happen if the people to resurrect are dead, not alive. "?? Really? Well, I am certainly glad you cleared that up!

And this here is 100% inaccurate: "and that's not to send a message of repentance or comfort to someone, it's to keep them alive forever."

Lazarus was risen from the dead yet he is not alive today.

All of this is completely beside the point, unless we are using the argument that most Christians hide behind religious dogma rather than consider a thought that wasn't taught to them by a Sunday school teacher.

I believe that God can/will speak to us in many ways and if He wants to appear looking like my dead grandma, He can.

Or maybe I am just a "deceiver"

[cogs]

Ya know those kinds of people that never really listen to what someone is saying but rather just await their turn to respond? Wait... what am I saying? OF COURSE you do.

Yes, I do, cause I have seen them too.

Anyway, I hate to repeat myself once again... but I'm still not talking about "the dead coming to life".

I was thinking you would respond that way after I wrote my post.

And what was this: "and if you wonder about the resurrection, that can only happen if the people to resurrect are dead, not alive. "?? Really? Well, I am certainly glad you cleared that up!

Because I knew after I said that jesus was not interested in the dead coming to life, that someone would say, 'yes he is, he's interested in every dead person being resurrected'.

And this here is 100% inaccurate: "and that's not to send a message of repentance or comfort to someone, it's to keep them alive forever."

Lazarus was risen from the dead yet he is not alive today.

Lazarus, as all of the dead, have yet to be resurrected to eternal life, the mission jesus began through sacrifice and atonement.

All of this is completely beside the point, unless we are using the argument that most Christians hide behind religious dogma rather than consider a thought that wasn't taught to them by a Sunday school teacher.

I have talked to these people also.

I believe that God can/will speak to us in many ways and if He wants to appear looking like my dead grandma, He can.

Or maybe I am just a "deceiver"

Not a deceiver by intent, but indirectly. I also believe god can speak to us in many ways. In the past, religions other that christians worshipped dead heroes and saints.

Eze 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which [was] toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

They were weeping for the dead tammuz, a false god, at the gate of the temple of god.
God, as jesus said, is the god of the living, not the dead. The distinction is between a living god, and those who would merge other religions with christianity , or reject the living god altogether in place of false gods.

[Criado]

To answer the original question,

In my humble opinion, the reason why some people see ACTUAL ghosts is because "someone" is trying to tell them that God is lying when He said dead are asleep and will never return to their home.

We should learn our lesson from Adam and Eve. God said that if they eat from the forbidden fruit they will surely die. But look what happened to the couple when they preferred to heed the serpent saying God is not saying the truth.

The "Enemy" is slyful. Beware!

Trust God above all!