[tomder55]

Interupting the coverage of Bristol Palin's pregnancy to announce that the U.S. has turned over control of Anbar Province . Sen .Obama: Soon you will have nothing left to surrender.

Zeus Obama said the surge of American forces in Iraq has "succeeded beyond our wildest dreams'' .Well not quite. Perhaps it was beyond his wildest dreams since surrender was his first option. However President Bush ;with a hat tip to Sen John McCain, envisioned a change in policy that worked.


At a campaign stop in Lancaster Pa. bambi said "Understand this, the argument was and continues to be when are we going to turn over responsibility to the Iraqis for their own country" I would suggest he update his teleprompter .It is stuck in a narrative that has passed him by.

[excon]

Hello tom:

Couple things.

So, you're saying Bush turned over control of Anbar... and that's good. But, if Obama had done it... it would have been surrender?? Ok, I got it?? Bwa, ha ha ha.

Next... I've seen you war dudes congratulate yourselves once before about this war. Of course, you were WRONG then. Knowing the Arabs as I do, I think you're wrong now too.

In fact, you ARE wrong. We're losing in Afghanistan. THAT is the war on terror. THAT is the war that counts. If you don't win there, you don't win ANYWHERE!

excon

[tomder55]

Anbar province ,once the capital of the "insurgency" and the most lethal place for American troops,was the symbol of "American failure " before the surge. Under Obama's terms of retreat(oops I mean withdrawal) it would've been a surrender . Instead we are now turning the province over to a stable Iraqi government and their security forces... and the local population backing the government and not AQ . That is the difference between their policies.

2 weeks ago a car bomb killed 5 police at a check point so yes I have no doubt that the terrorists have the means to do high profile attacks that I'm sure the press will dutifully report .

But former residents are returning ;markets ,businesses,restaurants are staying open .President Bush decided in Jan 2007 to change policy despite the objection of his field commander and many of his civilian advisers .He changed commanders and strategy ,deployed the additional troops and bucked the opinion of even many Republican congressional leaders .John McCain was up front urging this move long before the President . Obama opposed it .Obama was wrong . Will the MSM call out those like Obama, Biden,Reid ,Pelosi who were wrong on the surge? You already know that answer.

General P. made a statement that with the improving security and ability of the Iraqi forces ,the US could be able to leave all the Iraqi cities by next summer and perhaps leave Iraq completely by 2011. So what did Obama say in Denver ?
"And today, as my call for a time frame to remove our troops from Iraq has been echoed by the Iraqi government and even the Bush Administration"...
As big a lie /distortion of the facts as I have ever heard from a politician.

I completely disagree about the strategic importance of Afghanistan . But even there I don't see how it could be argued we are losing . Predators are taking out key AQ leaders .
Al-Qa'eda's American-born propaganda chief may have died in predator attack - Telegraph

And whenever the enemy is engaged they get wacked .
Convoy through hell: 3,000 British troops deliver devastating blow to Taliban during six-day battle | Mail Online
Think about it ;the enemy lost 250 trying to prevent the population from getting electric service... way to win the hearts and minds!!

And it is being fought exactly how everyone said we should fight wars... build coalitions with our allies and let the take the fight to the enemy... right ? Anyway ;using the Obama perscription it is a quagmire so we should pull out and retreat.. Maybe redeploy to Okinawa .

[speechlesstx]

Funny how there is never much comment on good news in Iraq.

[Skell]

I'd like to hear some good news in Afghanistan Steve. But problem is their isn't much coming out of there.

Don't bother with a link saying otherwise. We both no it's not going good where the real fight should be taking place! :)

[BABRAM]

Funny how there is never much comment on good news in Iraq.

My brother survived being in Iraq three times. My family, his wife, and children couldn't been happier to see him safe, and back in the States. :)

[tomder55]

Bobby me too ,I share your joy in his safe return . My cousin is going back soon for tour #4 (plus one during the Gulf War) . He directs me too much of the information I use. Soon we will welcome them all home with the heroes welcome they deserve.

Skell ;always moving the goal post .That is the same thing Excon said about the "real war" . I can link (and have above ) to plenty of good news from Afghanistan .But you don't want to hear it .

You say "where the real fight should be taking place" as if it isn't happening .Almost every time the enemy is engaged they get their butts kicked. Soon it will be winter and they will retreat to the caves they occupy to lick their wounds

But the defeatist MSM is more concerned about civilian collateral damage so that is what makes the news as they try to recreate an Afghan version of Haditha. Expect to hear from Jack Murtha any minute now. When your enemy is a civilian launching attacks from among civilians, it is inevitable that civilians will get hurt.

Also I disagree about the great strategic importance of Afghanistan.

The Afghani government ;unlike the Iraqi ,has not for the most part stepped up to the plate. So why should we be truly committed to them ? We can hunt AQ and let them secure the country themselves if they are unwilling to get with the program.I'm in favor of letting predator drones do the hunting of AQ and the Taliban leaders and keep all the soldiers out of harms way .

But suddenly you want us to commit more troops to a quagmire... strange.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

Let me see here. The war we SHOULD have gotten into is a quagmire, so we shouldn't try to win it. The OTHER war, where we SHOULDN'T have gone in, is one we can win.

But, what about Al QUEDA?? You don't care about them? Wow. Boy, right wing politics is really wacky.

excon

PS> Just for clarity sake, you did say that the war in Afghanistan is a QUAGMIRE.

[tomder55]

I did not say we should not care about AQ . Like I said ;wack them where and when you find them . By that definition the work we did recently in Somalia was as big a front as Afghanistan . The counter-insurgency work we are doing in the Philippines and Indonesia are as important ;if not more so ;as Afghanistan.

What is your idea of victory in Afghanistan ? We will not be able to create a stable country if the leader of the country is content with being the mayor of Kabul . Is your definition... find OBL and then leave ? Besides the hunt for OBL I see no real strategic importance in the country to us. Perhaps you can provide some illumination .

Edit : when I said quagmire (see above #3) I was using Obama's definition.

Edit again : so the subject of this posting was changed to Afghanistan because Iraq is succeeding... as I said... moving the goal posts

[speechlesstx]

At least I succeeded in prompting a little more discussion here. I also share your joy, Bobby, and as always am grateful their service.

Skell, tom's right and I do find it frustrating when people "move the goalpost" instead of just acknowledging the successes on this subject, especially when just a few months ago one of the leading presidential contenders said this was a war "we cannot win." What good does it serve to refuse to acknowledge the progress?

[Skell]

Congrats to all those involved in the handover of Anbar. There you go Steve. Acknowledgment!
But patting each other on the back isn't going to improve the "quagmire" in Afghanistan. Things aren't going well there. Bush committed more troops. Why would he do that if things were so rosy?