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michealb · Sep 21, 2008, 03:40 PM

The other issue with Pascal's wager is we all could be wrong. There are more gods than just the Christian god. You could be sent to a hell worse than me because the real god feels that believing in a false god is worse than not believing at all.

Credendovidis · Sep 21, 2008, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by michealb

The other issue with Pascal's wager is we all could be wrong.

Pascal's wager was proved to be false as validation for Christianity. It is strange that so many Christians do not seem to know that...

:)

Smoked · Sep 21, 2008, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Without a god you are not aware of the mistakes you make? That's odd, I don't need a god to tell me when I've made a mistake.
I said nothing of an afterlife, it doesn't enter into the discussion.

How sir would you be aware of a mistake in death with out afterlife? Please explain?

Smoked · Sep 21, 2008, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

You stated in Post # 109, referring to Catholicism :

"Nonsense" : That is an insult to more than 1 Billion (Roman) Catholic Christians, more than half of all Christians.

:rolleyes:

.

Let me jump right onto wiki and fix that definition for you so that it reflects correct data.

Alty · Sep 21, 2008, 07:22 PM

I want to believe in miracles. :)

I have seen many things in my life that cannot be explained. I wouldn't go so far as to call them miracles though.

As for an afterlife. I want to believe that heaven exists. Am I convinced that it does? No, sadly I'm not.

Is there a place where my parents are, where they are waiting for me, where we will be reunited? God I hope so. But once again, if there isn't, then it won't matter a lot after I die, in fact it matters more to me now then it will then.

arcura · Sep 21, 2008, 08:00 PM

NeedKarma
Good for you.
I DO believe in miracles for I have seen some.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

NeedKarma · Sep 22, 2008, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Smoked

How sir would you be aware of a mistake in death with out afterlife? Please explain?

I don't understand what you mean by "a mistake in death", can you explain please?

Smoked · Sep 22, 2008, 10:18 AM

[QUOTE=NeedKarma;1284903]
Telling people they were wrong when they weren't.[/QUOTE

Sorry, let me explain. If I am telling people they are wrong how would I ever know unless there is some afterlife? No one would know until they die. So if you are right and there is no afterlife then what will it matter? It won't... but back to other point. Are you suggesting there is life after death? Just not the one that I believe in?

NeedKarma · Sep 22, 2008, 10:27 AM

You don't consider that telling people they are wrong is perhaps a little insulting to them? All I hear is you talking about yourself.

I didn't suggest anything about an afterlife though I don't believe there is one.

Galveston1 · Sep 22, 2008, 03:24 PM

God created free moral agents. If you are free, you can choose wrong. Anything else is merely a robot.

Angels are free moral agents too, and we have a long history on one of them who chose wrong.

So no, (in the sense you use it) God did not create evil. He created beings that can choose to be evil.

Credendovidis · Sep 22, 2008, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Galveston1

God created free moral agents.

Correction : you BELIEVE that the clamed-to-exist God entity created "free moral agents".

:rolleyes:

Alty · Sep 22, 2008, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Galveston1

God created free moral agents. If you are free, you can choose wrong. Anything else is merely a robot.

Angels are free moral agents too, and we have a long history on one of them who chose wrong.

So no, (in the sense you use it) God did not create evil. He created beings that can choose to be evil.

Well, that's a bit mean of him, isn't it?

In other words, he gave us free will but it is our job to find the right way, to find God, to worship him? Why so many options? It really isn't fair to create free moral agents, give them all these options and then condem them if they make the wrong choice.

arcura · Sep 22, 2008, 06:48 PM

Altenweg,
When we raised our kids we told them what was right and wrong.
It was their choice whether to follow the right path or not and what the consequences of their choice would be.
I believe God did the same with us through His word, the bible.
To top that off he gave us a conscience to help guide us.
I have so much faith in that that I am sure of it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Alty · Sep 22, 2008, 06:58 PM

I respect your right to believe that Fred, I really do, but I disagree.

I do not believe that the bible is the word of God, merely the word of man, therefore I do not base my beliefs on the bible, nor do I choose a path based on the bibles teachings.

But, for the sake of conversation, the bible, if the basis of your beliefs, is not clear on which religion is the correct one.

Of course every religion that uses the bible as the basis for their belief claims that the bible clearly states that their religion is the correct one.

So, who is right?

The problem with the bible is that it isn't clear. Why? Because it was written by man. If God had written the bible then the instructions therein would be clear as a bell.

Now conscience I do possess, and I use it well. I have chosen a different path than you, and that's fine. If heaven exists I'm sure that God will see fit to admit all good people into paradise, no matter which path they chose.

Peace. :)

arcura · Sep 22, 2008, 07:33 PM

Altenweg,
I was already aware of you beliefs which I respect for you.
I was merely expressing mine and hoping you and others who read it understood why.
I also believe that God inspired men (in their time, culture and understanding) to write what is now in the bible.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Alty · Sep 22, 2008, 07:51 PM

I too am aware of your beliefs Fred, and though I don't agree I do respect your right to believe that. :)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. :)

Peace.

arcura · Sep 22, 2008, 09:33 PM

Altenweg
Agree to disagreem,
Yes.
It is nice to get along.
Nice is good.
Fred

Alty · Sep 22, 2008, 10:24 PM

Now that I agree with. :)

Peace. :)

sassyT · Sep 25, 2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by jrwild62

SassyT. You said,,,, Bottomline.. God knew all along cause He made it all.
If God knew,,,, why did he create something that he KNEW he was going to have to destroy many times over?

What are you asking me for? I am not God. Ask Him.

sassyT · Sep 25, 2008, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by jrwild62

My question is,,,, of all these miracles and scientific impossibilities that happened in biblical times, why do we not see these in modern times? Did all these miracles cease after the bible was completed? What made starving peasents so special? I wanna see some mind blowing miracles also, so I have proof and can believe. Let's see Oprah walk on water. Let's see Carrot-top turn water into wine. I wanna see 50,000,000 animals stuffed onto a small boat.

Such miracles happen all the time! I was in healing service once where I witnessed a blind eyes open, a paralytic healed, and I also witnessed with my own eyes a child who had one leg shorter that the other, his leg grew 2 inches right before our eyes. Miracles happen all the time, the dead are even raised! Nothing is impossible to them that believe. I see miracles happen in my own life. But of course to you that is all fake.. go figure :rolleyes: