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valinors_sorrow · May 19, 2006, 02:43 PM

I would guess, in the long run, this will all be about as remarkable as what happened in 1988 when The Last Temptation of Christ was released.

(yawns)

J_9 · May 19, 2006, 02:46 PM

Geez I forgot about that movie.

jduke44 · May 19, 2006, 03:14 PM

In particular I liked this part...
"Any faith that can't stand a little questioning -- especially the farfetched Da Vinci Code kind -- is a shallow one indeed. And Americans, overwhelmingly believers in God, are not persons of little faith. Religious groups afraid the movie will affect the beliefs of audience members or make the faithful doubt, underestimate the intelligence of the average American.

That is a very good point. I think it is the insecurities of the person's faith that causes them to protest things like this. I will admit, I was appalled about the fiction in this book and movie and other's that try to discount the truth. I have come to grips that I don't need to do anything about it and just keep on living by my faith.

I serve a God that can prove Himself to the world. I don't need to bash people's face in (not literally) to try to get them to believe. It will be up to Him to do it.

BTW, this is the first time I posted in this thread since I have never read the book or probably won't watch the movie. Not because I am protesting but mainly because I don't read a lot of books or watch a lot of movies.

NeedKarma · May 19, 2006, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by jduke44

I don't need to bash people's face in (not literally) to try to get them to believe.

You earn my respect for that.

J_9 · May 19, 2006, 03:44 PM

Two thumbs up for this one!!

the insecurities of the person's faith that causes them to protest things like this

Starman · May 27, 2006, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

The "truth" about the Davinci Code is that its a work of fiction played out against a background of some historical fact and some historical speculation.

Let each person decide for themselves what facts to beleive or disbeleive.

It's the historical evidence which the author provides that is causing his book to be viewed as dangerous to all denominations of Christianity. I just saw a commentary on this book on TV and it was described as anti Christian propaganda couched in an entertainment format. In short, sugar coated poison. Of course I don't disagree with everything the book says.
Only with the parts that contradict my understanding of scripture.

JoeCanada76 · May 27, 2006, 04:29 AM

Quite honestly,

Let me play the devils advocate here. Lets say Jesus really did get married, Lets say Jesus really did have children, Lets say there is a blood line from Jesus himself in the world today.

Does that really change anything about who Jesus was? Jesus was free of sin, Yes. Jesus was in human form, Yes. So what would the ramifications be of the thoughts about Jesus leading a life that was different then in the bible. The answer for me is nothing. It is not a sin to get married. It is not a sin to have children.

Those are some of my thoughts about it. Just because some people are trying to change thoughts or ideas about the life that Jesus lived, will not change my belief in Jesus. It will not take me away from the Bible. It will not cause me to doubt.

I think it is interesting the different ideas that people come up with, with different conspiricies and it is up to each of us individually to watch, read and decide whether something is fact or fiction.

Do I believe it is possible, why not!

Have I read the book or seen the movie, No. I am in no rush.

Another question is why all the panic from religions, why all the panic in denominations over the Davinci Code? It is the work of the devil. Boycott the movie and all this stuff coming from churches. What are they so afraid of?

Joe

valinors_sorrow · May 27, 2006, 07:07 AM

I have a date to go see it on Wednesday...

It is a silly little experiment we cooked up. My girlfriend (who is pretty devotely religious and has read the book) and I (the non-religious one who has not read the book) plan to hash out our reviews over a great Italian dinner afterward. Obviously it would help to have more involved for anything really objective (like someone religious who hasn't read it and someone not religious who has comes immediately to mind) but this is silly like I said. :D

Shall I post a summary of that here afterwards?

NeedKarma · May 27, 2006, 07:09 AM

Sure, sounds like a great evening!

Fr_Chuck · May 27, 2006, 07:48 AM

Sad movie, while I dislike the problems it has caused by presenting a lot of fake and incorrect material as true, ( so does star wars I assume there is no war going on in space) ( of course if Bush could he would get us into it to)

But the movie was a snooze fest, I love action shows, I love Tom Hanks shows normally, but this was a sad excuse for an actoin show.
The American Treasure which was not a all time best was still better.

I was really disappointed

Starman · May 27, 2006, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

Quite honestly,

Let me play the devils advocate here. Lets say Jesus really did get married, Lets say Jesus really did have children, Lets say there is a blood line from Jesus himself in the world today.

Does that really change anything about who Jesus was? Jesus was free of sin, Yes. Jesus was in human form, Yes. So what would the ramifications be of the thoughts about Jesus leading a life that was different then in the bible. The answer for me is nothing. It is not a sin to get married. It is not a sin to have children.
Joe

One of the ramifications is that it makes those who wrote the Gospels liars and those who believe tha Gospels gullible fools. Since millions view the gospels as part of God's Word, they can't help but take such accusations seriously.

You are right, it isn't a sin to have children and to get married.
Neither is it a sin for us to cut our hair like Samson did. Yet for Samson it was because he had made certain vows and had certain responsibilities which we don't.

It's the same with Jesus. His vow was to do the will of he who sent him which was for him to preach the good News of the Kingdom, prepare the foundation for the Christian church, and then give up his life for the salvation of mankind. This assignment took him three years and the Gospels tell us that he accomplished it perfectly.

Jesus was provided with a human body with one purpose and one purpose only, to offer it up as a ransom sacrifice for our sins.

Hebrews 10:4-6 (New King James Version)

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“ Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.

Also, Jesus; DNA would have been perfect-without blemish while his wife's would have been tainted with Adamic sin. IF Jesus' perfect DNA predominated as was the case with Mary when Jesus was conceived, then a race of perfect children would have come into existence and his sacrifice to lift mankind from sin would have taken an unscriptural turn. In short, he would have been providing his own solution instead of the one which God had told him was to be provided.

Ephesians 3:10-12 (New King James Version)

11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,.

BTW
The devil indirectly suggested such a course by offering Jesus earthly goals in order to have him deviate from his mission. Jesus rebuked him and refused the offer.

talaniman · May 27, 2006, 01:07 PM

I can't understand the contreversy its only a movie!

magprob · May 27, 2006, 02:13 PM

Yea v. sorrow, if your still alive!

JoeCanada76 · May 27, 2006, 11:24 PM

Starman,

Jesus ministry was how many years? How many years was not written about Jesus life. What happened to all the years before he preached? Don't you think that Jesus led a normal life. Working as a carpenter and possibly even being married? Jesus is pure and what is mans purpose on earth is. To learn about love, to join together; example in marriage and to have children. So Jesus came to earth in human form and also showed that he is human as well as Gods son. So does that leave a possibility that he led his human life in many ways as we ourselves did or do? Why is there are only a few years of his life written but nothing else, you would think for such a strong spiritual man(Son Of God) that there would be a lot written down about this great powerful man but there is not?

Joe

Starman · May 31, 2006, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

Starman,

Jesus ministry was how many years? How many years was not written about Jesus life. What happened to all the years before he preached? Don't you think that Jesus led a normal life. Working as a carpenter and possibly even being married? Jesus is pure and what is mans purpose on earth is. To learn about love, to join together; example in marriage and to have children. So Jesus came to earth in human form and also showed that he is human as well as Gods son. So does that leave a possibility that he led his human life in many ways as we ourselves did or do? Why is there are only a few years of his life written but nothing else, you would think for such a strong spiritual man(Son Of God) that there would be a lot written down about this great powerful man but there is not?

Joe

The early years of his life were preparatory for his mission which was to save mankind from Adamic sin but knowing about them is not necessary for our salvation. So being unnecessary to accomplish his mission, they were not included.

To learn about love?
If Jesus had been been ignorant of love then he would have been marred, imperfect, because any creature who doesn't know what love is cannot reflect God's personality perfectly.

1 John 4:8
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

That would have disqualified him from being the one to offer himself up as a sacrifice for our sins because then he himself would have been sinful in being deficient in love. It's wise to keep in mind that Jesus had a prehuman existence in heaven where he experienced God's perfect love and learned what love is, not accompanied by carnal relations of course, but love nevertheless.

Also let's remember that rebel angels experienced marriage during Noah's day and it didn't do them any good.

Genesis 6
1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

They are still unable to show the love that God requires of his faithful creatures. Yet there are angels in heaven who have never experienced marriage and are able know what love is and are able to express love as God requires.

Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

However, Jesus' integrity had not been tested via physical suffering as Job had and this experience did add a certain quality to his character which would serve him well as heavenly high priest, judge, and king.

Hebrews 5:8
though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

Addendum:

The only events recorded in the Bible about his human pre-ministerial life are events having to do with his birth and his attendance at the temple where he astounded the scholars by his knowledge. There are stories about other events in his life written in the books called apocryphal books. But they have never been recognized as inspired by Christian churches.

NeedKarma · May 31, 2006, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

I can't understand the contreversy its only a movie!

And the best part is that the religious groups are doing the marketing for the movie for free. Hehe.

prefabber · May 31, 2006, 07:00 AM

Hello, I have not read the book nor have seen the movie. I think it's up to each person to decide if the believe it or not. As for me IT's just a movie.

Hope12 · May 31, 2006, 09:52 AM

Hi,
I believe that if one's faith is strong then this movie nor any other movie should not bother me at all. Will I go to see it. No. I know what I need to know about Jesus and therefore do not need man's versions.

Take care,
Hope12

Starman · May 31, 2006, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

And the best part is that the religious groups are doing the marketing for the movie for free. Hehe.

But the ones who see it and were going to see it regardless of ay counterargument, will have been presented with both sides of the issue and hopefully won't be as susceptible to being misled as they would have been otherwise. That's the purpose of the response to the dispersal of such information. Perhaps this film can cut both ways!

BTW

A christian has his shield of faith to protect him against such ideas but he is also equipped with the sword of the spirit with which to overturn anti-Christian reasonings.
Sheathing the sword when it should be being used is not what its purpose is.

Ephesians 6:16-18 (New King James Version)

16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17... and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

Spiritual Armor Explained
http://www.realarmorofgod.com/armor-of-god.html

valinors_sorrow · May 31, 2006, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by magprob

Yea v. sorrow, if your still alive!

Verily Magprob, (laughs here) my friend and I have lived through it and here stands our review as promised:

Both my Christian book-reading friend and I agreed that it wasn't all that hot of a movie. Too much explanation slowed the action, and despite the talented acting, interesting symbology and rich locations - neither of us felt very engaged in the story. The book was better according to my friend although she couldn't really say why apart from the movie seems sort of "full of itself" whilst the book does not do that. I don't plan on reading it.

As for faith alterations, she said Bah, most of it struck her as just fun fantasy with no ability to alter her beliefs. It is just a movie. However it has made her wonder about a few things. Her minister's take on wondering is that's a good thing, since it may lead to learning and expanding understanding. As for my non-religious beliefs, it seemed every side was alternately unnecessarily complicating and manipulating things, so nobody was compelling in their arguments.

So the verdict is "We've seen better!" :(