[DaveInPhx]

My brother bought a house with a pool and there were a few leaks in the plumbing. Whoever installed the pool used ABS instead of PVC which caused the majority of the leaks. These have been taken care of, but now for the tricky one...

There is a piece of copper pipe that is apparently being used as conduit for the pool light wiring. I can only see about 6" sticking out from under the kooldeck and the wire from this pipe then goes another 6 or 8 feet without conduit to the box where the pump wiring is.

When the pump is running water flows (very slowly) from this pipe. My first thought was that it was just the water seeking it's level from the pool, but the pipe is above the water level and the water only flows when the pump is on.

Is there some kind of pressurized water circulation around the pool light that would be coming back though the conduit? How do I stop this water from flowing? I need to run conduit back to where the pump is, but I don't want to flood the rest of the wiring there. I'm guessing someone else had this same thought which I suspect is why the copper pipe currently does not run all the way back to the pump. And why copper pipe? Seems like PVC conduit would be a much better choice. The house is 30ish years old, so maybe they didn't have PVC conduit then, I don't know.

Another thing is the pump is connected to two 15A breakers (220v?). There is no separate breaker for the pool light. If you turn either of the beakers on, the pool light comes on but the pump won't work unless both beakers are on. I'm guessing this is because the pool light is 110 and is wired off the pump power. There is no separate switch for the light but the pump does have a timer. Even with the timer off the light stays on. I can wire up a switch and GFCI for the light, but seems to me like there should be a separate 110v breaker for the light.

[albinfla]

Wow, that is scary stuff, but unfortunately not uncommon. Yes, I would put a separate breaker on the light, then switch, then gfci.

The light wire and conduit must leak all of the time into the ground. The conduit should come out of the light bucket, up to a junction box above the ground near the pool. Then, it should go over to the pump area into either a transformer if it is 12 volt, or directly to the breaker. I copied and pasted this post from another time that I thought might give you some useful info...

"You shouldn't have to drain the pool to replace the light. Just remove the trim ring, and remove the bulb, or bulb bucket. There is another bucket that stays in the wall. That one is sealed. The conduit should go up to a junction block above ground level fairly near the light. The conduit will be sealed to the light bucket, but the conduit will have water in it up to the water line in the pool. That is why they usually put a junction box near the pool, a few inches above the ground.

Sometimes the wire will go all the way back to the transformer, or breaker panel which is probably near your pump and filter. Maker sure you kill the power before messing with any of it.

Disconnect the wire in the junction box by unscrewing the wire nuts. Or take it loose at the supply panel if you don't have a junction box. Use some black tape and tape a string to the wire going down to the pool, so that you can use that for a "pull wire" to pull the new light wire in.

After the wires are loose, then you can pull the bulb and the wire though the conduit. Pull it until your string is above the water line. Then untape the string from the old bulb and wiring.

Then, stretch out the cord, and cut the cord on the new bulb to match the length of the old one.

Now, tape the string to the new cord.

Pull the wire and string through, then place the bulb in the bucket.

Replace the wire nuts on the wires.

Place a ball of duct seal (ask at your building or hardware supply) around the wire to seal the conduit coming in from the pool. That will prevent corrosion from occurring in your junction box.

That fits the majority of them. There are some that are sealed socket type bulbs without the wire attached. You will do most of the above steps to get the light bucket up above the water line if that is the case. I think you can probably figure that out."

Hope that info all helps.
Al

[DaveInPhx]

Wow, that is scary stuff, but unfortunately not uncommon. Yes, I would put a separate breaker on the light, then switch, then gfci.

The light wire and conduit must leak all of the time into the ground. The conduit should come out of the light bucket, up to a junction box above the ground near the pool. Then, it should go over to the pump area into either a transformer if it is 12 volt, or directly to the breaker. I copied and pasted this post from another time that I thought might give you some useful info...
...
Al

I had actually read the post you quoted before my first post and found it pretty helpful, but now I have a couple of questions.

You said "the light wire and conduit must leak all of the time into the ground." Are you saying it's supposed to do this or simply commenting that in it's current condition, leaking must be taking place? It certainly does leak and there's a big mud hole around where the conduit ends. I really don't want this to happen, and based on your post, it seems like the solution is the 'duct seal'. Is this correct? And will the duct seal hold under pressure, albeit very slight? By the way, where is the pressure coming from to push the water above level? There aren't any returns near the light, so I can't imagine were this pressure could be coming from.

Is there a distance requirement on the j-box for the light near the pool? The pump is only about 15-20 feet from the light so is it OK to just run the wiring directly to the pump area and skip the first j-box? That's how it's wired now, except that about 1/2 of the wire is not enclosed in conduit.

Finally, is it OK to continue with the copper conduit or should I change it to PVC?

[albinfla]

Dave,
The conduit is not supposed to leak all of the time. It is supposed to be flooded internally all of the time. The duct seal is really not to keep water out, it is to keep chlorine fumes and humidity out of the junction box.

The short length of copper is attached to the light bucket. If it is not leaking at the bucket itself, you should leave it intact. It is very tight between the light and the light bucket, so PVC fittings will not fit behind it.

What I would suggest is to get a copper coupling, and a short length of copper pipe, and a male adaptor that you can screw into a junction box. Connect it from the existing short piece of copper to the new copper pipe, and bring it up to a junction box near the pool. Typically this would be near the edge of the deck 2-3 feet from the pool. It should be above the surface of the deck so it is above the water line of the pool. I personally like to place them a foot above the deck level- 8" to the bottom of the box, plus the box is 4" tall. That piece of copper must have good seals, because it will be flooded constantly. You can either use brass compression fittings, or those new shark-bite push-on fittings are nice if you can find them.

You will need to pull the light per my instructions to do that so you don't take any chances on damaging the wire insulation. Make sure you tie a string or wire to the light cord, or you can use a wire fish to pull it back after you are done and skip the string.

Run a new wire from the junction box to the electrical panel. You can use a 14-2 outdoor wire. The ground will just go to the metal junction box, or not be used if it is PVC, since your light will probably only have 2 wires. I would run it in conduit, but some guys will only put a short length of conduit at each end, at the junction box, and at the electrical panel. Personally, I would spend the extra $5 and put it in conduit. Use duct seal at both ends.

After the junction box, I would change to PVC conduit. The conduit between the junction box and the breaker panel do not have to be pressure sealed. They will have no water in them.

The pressure coming up is a mystery. While digging up to run the new line, who knows you may solve the mystery. Let's address the obvious problem first. Then, we'll address the other further if we need to.
Al

[DaveInPhx]

Great response!
Thanks you so much. It may take me a week or so to get to this project because I have a few others I'm working on, but I'll try to remember to get back and post my results.

Thanks again!

[albinfla]

Good luck to you Dave! Thanks for keeping us posted.
Al

[DaveInPhx]

One more question. Where does the duct seal go? Is that in the light bucket that stays in the pool or does it go at the j-box where the conduit/wire comes in?

[albinfla]

Duct seal goes inside the conduit on both the line coming into the junction box and the line going out of the junction box that goes to the breaker panel. You can also put some where the conduit comes up into the breaker panel.

You are not trying to prevent water from getting into the conduit at the light bucket. You are only trying to keep the chlorine fumes out of the connections and breaker panel. What you accomplish by putting duct seal around the wire in the ends of the conduit is to prevent corrosion on your connections.

Hope that helps.
Al

[DaveInPhx]

Got it. Thanks again!