[samir_raut88]

U know rublue I wish people. Had the ability to speak like you when the native americans had the uninvited guests come over in THEIR land. You think the american people are not getting profits at american's suffering or for that matter some other countries' suffering now! 'to profit at american's suffering!' that's BS.

But I do feel that there should be some security measure along the border (I doubt if a fence would work) because we know there are lot of people who come here breaking the LAW or they are illegal. For those who are here, again there are illegal immgrants who work their a** off to make their living but there are others who are screw*** around. It's hard to pick one from the other. It may be not nice for them personally or for family but once you break the law, that calls for some actions right there.

But that doesn't have to mean US workforce is against mexicans. This is a point where we clean the system and allow renewed opportunities to immigrants but with effective measures.

But face it... we have different backgrounds... Any immigrant coming to America had their dreams and they made it true. It shaped America and here we are today debating again for what made us and America. We are facing this issue because of our inability to forsee such things, isn't that part of our fault too now?
O well.
Peace fellows!

[RUBLUE]

I agree about the Native American Indian. If you would go back & read all the posts, you would see. And I think we all agree this is one big mess, with no easy answer. People are going to get hurt one way or another. Again I feel, if the law's we have in place would have been enforced over the past years, this huge mess would not be taking place. God help America!! God save our Government!!

[samir_raut88]

Hey guys.. here is some wisdom right here. It's somewhat funny but goes along with the entire thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM&dpos=2

Feel free to pass it along yr friends in the congress..
Peace!

[talaniman]

I agree about the Native American Indian. If you would go back & read all the posts, you would see. And I think we all agree this is one big mess, with no easy answer. Peolpe are going to get hurt one way or another. Again I feel, if the law's we have in place would have been enforced over the past years, this huge mess would not be taking place. God help America!!!!! God save our Government!!!

Why do I get the impression that the government is the main reason for all this controversy?:cool: :eek:

[Starman]

Just my thoughts. I can HAVE & SPEAK. about them. This America!!!. Why should Mexican people be any different, than any other person wanting to come to the US ? The process of any person wanting to come to the US should be the same for ALL!!! A person from Europe, such as Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Go through a very strict process even to visit here. Example. Even if a WEALTHY person from the Ukraine who wants to see sites like Disney Land, Hollywood etc. Many detailed documents must be completed and viewed by the American consulate in their country. Also a in person interview. They must show cause and reason why they would want to return to their homeland. Such as own a business, family they support. Also meet income requirements. Then if all is ok, they MIGHT get a visa to come here. Even so, it could be a year or longer before they get the visa. I know that many of the thousands of Mexican people who cross or boarder illegal everyday are good God fearing people who want to better their life. But reality dictates a large % of these people are involved in Drug, Weapons, Gang related issues. Also reality is many of the illegal Mexicans who are here already, tax the medical & welfare system. Meaning less for the Real Americans who are native or here legal. There are some issues that just piss me off. I live in central California where English is pretty much a second language. I might be more supportive of their cause if they did not wave the Mexican Flag, wanting to be Americans. I also do not understand our National Anthem words to be changed for their cause. It has been many years since I have studied about our fight for independence from England 200+ years ago. But I do not recall any Mexicans being there. My stepfather was a Mexican. Even way back in the 70's he did not like term Mexican American. He said that he was a American who just happened to be a Mexican. Amen to that!!! I do not feel we need for Congress to make new laws, costing American Tax Payers MILLIONS of dollars. We just need to enforce the laws we have. Therefore ANYBODY from Mexico or Tim Buck Two, who are here illeagle should be ARRESTED & DEPORTED YESTERDAY!!!!! But that's just me. :)

First, I think everyone should live in their own country, that includes Americans. This way the sense of foreigners taking liberties, such as yapping in their own language to the annyoance of the natives, in a land that isn't theirs or shouldn't be theirs wouldn't exist. Should Mexicans stay in Mexico? That would be the ideal both for Mexicans who really don't want to be here and wish that they weren't forced to leave their country and come here and for the Americans, such as you, who don't want them here.


Second, there is a reason why the present administration isn't leveling the gun on these illegals as you suggest it do. If the government could it would but since it can't it doesn't. Why? For the reasons already explained in the media and with which you should be familiar before criticizing the government.

Third, it's OK to disagree with the illegal immigrant presence since everyone has a right to an opinion. But it is not OK to create strawman arguments such as that they are demanding that everyone sing the anthem in Spanish when such a demand or even suggestion has never been made and their simply singing it in their own language in an effort to show worried Americans such as you that they too can be good citizens, doesn't constitute a demand. So the accusation is actually baseless and because of it comes across as inflammatory.

Fourth, the government has known for decades that this situation was developing. This is not something that appeared overnight out of the clear blue sky. But since there was profit being made it turned its attention to other things it considered more important until now. If indeed it had wanted to stop the immigration flow it could have easily done so long ago. Russia did it in Berlin Germany and only the removal of the wall allowed the flow to begin again after communism fell. So a similar wall could have been erected long ago. Yet, our government chose not to do this.

Fifth, your argument that Mexicans did not participate in the American Revolutionary War for indepenence from England is untrue. Under Spain Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and other Hispanics who were part of the Spanish colonial Army took part. In any case, your premise for citizenship is faulty since if you use it you would have to disqualify all those minorities, such as the Italians and the Irish, Jews, Russians, and so on whose ancestors didn't participate in the Revelutionary War because, unlike the Hispanics, who were here in what is now the USA even before the English founded the thirteen colonies,their ancestors arrived in this continent AFTER that war ended. The vast majority who did participate as part of the thirteen colony rebellion were of English descent. Two of the three governments which helped the thirteen colonies gain their Independence were France and Spain. So doing a little reading before stating something as fact prevents us from writing our own version of history.

Excerpt:

Part 2: Bernardo Galvez Drives the British from the South


By Judge Edward F. Butler, SR.

On 27 August 1779 Galvez led his army 90 miles up the Mississippi to Ft. Bute at Manchac (in current Louisiana). He started with a force of 667 men, which included 170 veteran soldiers; 330 recruits newly arrived from Mexico and the Canary Islands, and an assortment of Cubans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, militiamen, free Blacks and Mulattoes, and 7 American volunteers, including Oliver Pollock. Part of the force traveled in a flotilla of four boats, under the command of Juan Alvarez, while the main body went by land.
Along the way Galvez enlisted an additional 600 men from the German and Acadian coasts and 160 Indians. When he finally arrived to confront the British, his army consisted of 1,427 men. They attacked and seized Manchac on 7 September, taking 20 prisoners. Nearby developed the town of Galveztown, which was later settled by the Canary Islanders. [Note: Many Canary Islanders settled in and around San Antonio.]

OFFICIAL THANKS TO SPAIN FROM THE UNITED STATES

On 8 November 1779 Thomas Jefferson wrote to General Galvez, expressing his thanks for Spain's assistance to the revolutionary cause. In George Washington's farewell to his officers, he toasted Spain for it's assistance during the revolutionary war. In 1784 the U.S. Congress cited General Galvez and the Spanish government for their aid during the Revolution. Upon his father's death in 1785, Governor Galvez was named Viceroy of New Spain. He died in Mexico City on 30 November 1786 at 40 years of age. Part 3 Bibliography


http://www.sar.org/mxssar/spinvo-2.htm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_de_G%C3%A1lvez

http://www.americanrevolution.org/hispanic.html

BTW
Also, if you take issue with the term Mexican American then you also take issue with the term African American as well--correct? If you do then you would be in the minority since the majority of people in the USA don't mind at all that black Americans call themselves African Americans. In short, it isn't an issue. So if it isn't an issue in relation to African Americans why should it suddenly become an issue with Mexican Americans?

[Starman]

There are so many other countrys in South Africa, North Korea, China, Ukraine, Poland, Russia, that are just as worse off as Mexico. But because they are a boarder country, and having been breaking the LAW froever, we should overlook that. This one issue, people being here illegal is tearing this country apart. Irony, if the illegal people were not here, there would not be a issue.

You keep speaking about the law being broken and asking why should illegal Mexicans be an exception. I ask you who is it that you think is saying that it should be? Pray tell cause try as I might I can't see anyone out there recommending your weird idea-neither, Bush, nor Fox, nor Hispanics Americans, nor even the illegals themselves.

Furthermore, who twisted the government's arm to allow this lawbreaking?
Certainly not the illegals. Politically influential Corporate America out to make a quick buck perhaps?


Christian Viewpoint

But seriously, in God's eyes the earth is everyone's since mankind wasn't created to be fragmented into nations speaking a babble of languages and torn apart by borders.


Genesis 11
1And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

2And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. KJV


Serious divisions are a consquence of man demanded doing things his own way without God's guidance. In short, to be like God in deciding what is good and what is evil. Results? Look around.

Does God consider it a wrong to cross national borders illegally? The Bible tells us to be law-abiding. So breaking the law by crossing borders illegally is not what a Christian is expected to do. However, during the holocaust when crossing borders that way meant fleeing for your life from an unjust government out to obliterate you, it wasn't wrong.
Perhaps these Mexicans feel more or less the same way about their government.

[Starman]

magprob agrees: Very Good, and strong points you bring up. Are you for a Globalist society Starman?

Glad you agree. : )

About my viewpoint, it is based on the scriptures which describe nationalism as a temporary thing which God has permitted in order to allow Satan and man sufficient time to prove their accusations if they can. I don't think my views are globalist since I try to stay as neutral as humanly possible in conflicts between nations. I prefer to place my hope on the promised intervention of God's Kingdom in human affairs and the establishment of a peaceful global society where the earth will return to its paradisiacal condition and mankind to its original physical and mental perfection.


Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. KJV

[talaniman]

Where as I understand the frustration over this issue I cannot in good conscious blame mostly innocent people trying to feed families and raise kids for the current debacle along our borders. The real blame fits squarely on the shoulders of the Mexican and US governments under the guise of NAFTA. For the last 30 years American business men have built thousands of plants and factories 50 miles into Mexico along the border (Free trade zone) and exploited the local populations with low wages and long hours and sub-human conditions while they reap billions in PROFITS and pay no tariffs or benefits to the workers. I would run too if I worked for 70 dollars a week and it took 6, 12 hour days to do it in .What are they supposed to do and be honest what would YOU do with conditions such as these. The bad part is you and I only see the illegals who cross the border while your government has done absolutely nothing in the wake of this mass exodus from tyranny and oppression. This is going on all over the world as millions live and die and us fat Americans can only see our own little part of life that they let us have to keep our mouth shut or worse espouse the kind of rhetoric that shifts the blame to people who have no voice to defend themselves. Yep America has screwed everyone again. Are we proud of ourselves yet?:cool: :eek:

[magprob]

Most excellent Starman! I am for a globalist society if, and only if, GOD is in charge of it. Not Dubya Bush, the Rockerfellers, Duponts or anyone else that thinks they know better what I need than I do myself! So bring it on!!

[Starman]

Most excellent Starman! I am for a globalist society if, and only if, GOD is in charge of it. Not Dubya Bush, the Rockerfellers, Duponts or anyone else that thinks they know better what I need than I do myself! So bring it on!!!!

Human rulers have only managed to make a mess of it even to the point where the very ability of the earth to sustain life is threatened. But we are promised that will be remedied soon.

Revelation 11:18 (New King James Version)

18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”


http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyKB...xtinction.html


BTW
Thanks for the compliment of excellence. But I prefer to be called either brother, in a spiritual senes, or just plain Starman. . : )

[1236moni]

Yes there are other countries that also want to be able to come into The US but I see it as Mexicans are putting in a lot of effort to get here. I believe that once they are here they should be treated as human beings. I know this man who is here illegally but has been here for 10 years without any problems... he pays bills has a family and has a good job I don't see why he wouldn't be considered a citizen

[1236moni]

We carry the flag to represent where we are coming from. We also carry the State flag as well but nobody points that out right?? Yea we would be glad to represent the land we are on but we must not forget where we come from and what are people are going through... you know what I mean??