[metamorph]

Four years ago I entered a relationship that was and still is amazing, except for one thing: we almost never have sex. We moved in together weeks after we met (it made sense at the time :o ) and it took seven months until we had sex for the first time. We slept in the same bed every night before that. He didn't even realize we hadn't ever done it yet. At our age and level of liberal-ness, this seemed exceedingly abnormal to me.

I thought that we would have sex normally, now that it had happened once; boy, was I wrong; I am lucky if it happens once a month; right now, it's been about two months;
Every six or seven months, I blow up about this subject. I ask him why, he says he doesn't know why. I ask everyone else, they can't think of a reason;

I went through the logical steps:
Low libido? Well... he slept with his ex girlfriends a lot; he's 24; and, whenever we do sleep together, he doesn't seem to have any problems; he claimed he was sexually healthy; I figured a lot of men with low libido wish they wanted to have more sex, and try to do something about it; he didn't want it; he didn't want to want it; he didn't want to want to want it.

To cut a long story short, a few weeks ago, after four years of asking and begging and feeling neglected, confused etc. he finally (after skillful interrogation) told me the reason: I am too fat; I don't turn him on; not hot; never have been; my body doesn't make him want me;

Now the weird part is, I am 23, 5'5"; i weigh 132 pounds; i have 20% body fat as measured by some study i was a subject in; but i am not thin enough for this man to want me;

i think you may feel revolted; i read a lot of posts about this; i'm starting to think that we can call men "shallow" , weak, stupid etc. for this kind of superficiality, and say things like, "you should love what's inside and not outside"; but in saying those things, we are being unfair; there are men out there who seem honestly concerned; they can't help it; they look at us, and we just don't do it for them; you may not be "too overweight" according to some chart, but you may be missing out on some hot monkey lovin' because your male is wired to want somethin' else; it is estimated that 30% of american couples have a sexless marriage; now, i know that resembles the 30% of americans are overweight.

what should we do? is this a widespread problem? can we blame men for their subconscious reactions? should we try to please them? do you have a friend whose husband is inexplicably asexual? did she gain weight? did you? have you seen a difference? do women and men have different standards for what is acceptably skinny? are women willing to sacrifice some "looks" in exchange for chocolate satisfaction, but are men unwilling to make the same sacrifice because they have nothing to gain from us enjoying our chocolate? Are men wired to like skinny women because, evolutionarily, that would have denoted youth and health?

[kirriky]

First of all, I don't think it's about all men being attracted to skinny women. I have a friend who's got a 60kg limit (60kg is roughly 132lbs), as in his perfect girl would weigh 60kg. For a 160-170cm woman, it'd be a healthy weight. (Some 5'5''-5'7''ft). Another friend prefers them anorexically skinny. Yet another one likes them plump.

And, evolutionarily speaking, skinny in no way means attractive. (Remember all those ancient statues). "Evolutionarily speaking", healthy is attractive. Fit, yes, skinny, no. Obese isn't naturally attractive, but at 132lbs you're nowhere near obese.

Nowadays it's just a question of personal preference. Some guys like them skinny, some don't. I don't think it's a question of ''pleasing him''. He says he isn't attracted to you, fullstop. Maybe he's lying and it's not really about the weight. Maybe he's asexual. You never know. The fact is, he isn't attracted to you, you don't have sex, you're unhappy, it's not working. And you don't really have a problem with your body. There's lots of guys out there who would be attracted to a 5'5'' 132lbs girl. And if he wasn't attracted to you in the first place, why did he move in with you? To me it doesn't look like this whole arrangement is working at all. He knows that you want sex, and he knows that he's unable or unwilling to give it to you. I don't think you should try starving yourself into anorexia for this person. You're young, and there's lots of guys out there who'd be attracted to you and be honest about it.

[smoothy]

Lets make this part clear. At 5'5" and 132 lbs you aren't overweight enough to put off anyone but Shallow Hal (Jack Blacks movie character). Guys are extremely visual. But few are ever that picky.

You may not be swimsuit model trim but neither are most people. That's not the issue. He has a problem... what that might be could take some more digging around. Twice a day might be expecting too much but not twice a week much less twice a month or even every other month. Hell old people in nursing homes get it more than that.

Moving in together after only a few weeks is way too soon.

[Fr_Chuck]

First no, if he is trying to blame you for this, NO WAY, first that is not that heavy, I know 100's of ladies shorter than that and they may weight 200 to 300 lbs and gesss what they have wild sex lifes.

So if he is not wanting sex, he is the one having a problem, and he is pushing his problem onto yourself confidence.


*** and smoothy, I could have went all day without the image of grandma in the nursing home getting it on.

[smoothy]

*** and smoothy, I could have went all day without the image of grandma in the nursing home getting it on.

Not many people even want to think about that, but its true. Talk with someone who works at a nursing home sometime. I'm not kidding. :eek:

[Synnen]

I *wish* I weighed 132 lbs.

Tell your man to either get some help, get over himself, or get out.

PS... tell him he's not rich enough for you to have a pool and the pool boy, so he'd better figure out fast how to fix things. Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone you're not sexually attracted to? That sounds like it's either an excuse, or he's got deeper issues.

[BetrayalBtCamp]

You are assuming he is telling you the truth & obviously there is no way you are fat.

He is having issues of some sort with sex, intimacy, relationships or whatever that is manifesting itself by you being put on his sex diet. You have asked him repeatedly why he's not hungry, what he wants in order for sex to happen & what he wants most is to stop being asked & bothered about it. So now he's pointed the finger at you being the cause so you'll stop "hounding" him for sex or asking what the problem is so that there isn't any sex. Which will buy him even more sexless time while you starve yourself & that still isn't likely to solve the core problem here which isn't your wt at all.

And unless you were in the bed with his gf's or have talked to them yourself, you don't know he had "lots" of sex with them. And to him, "lots" could be once a quarter from what you've described. If you can talk to an ex easily, do that to find out if they had a healthy sex life. I wouldn't be surprised to find out they didn't from her perspective & he's had the sex issues for a long time, not just with you.

Do you know if he masturbates or watches porn? I mean do you have any evidence of his demonstrating in an interest in sex in any way even if not with you?

[liz28]

I think he's just lying to you and trying to put you down, don't let him do that. Maybe he has other issues that you're unaware of. Even one view sex differently, some want it some don't. Either way don't let this guy play with your self-esteem, your body weight is okay. Everyone need some type of body fat and you need to be comfortable in your own skin. I am 5'7 and weight 161lbs. I carry my weight in my hips and gluts. My boyfriend nor g
Have I had any problems with guys. This relationship lacks a lot of things and it don't seem like your on the same page.

Smoothy, I have heard the same stories you heard as well about nursing homes. Mind blowing stories.

[twinkiedooter]

He's blaming you for his inadequecies. Time to have your love boat pull up anchor and leave port and leave this loser behind on the shore where he belongs. He lied about his previous girlfriends and their adventures. Maybe in his mind he did it a million times, but in reality probably once or twice. You deserve someone better than him as he's not about to change if he hasn't changed anything except the TV channel in 4 years. Sorry.

You started saying that your relationship was amazing except for one thing - sex. Is he that good a conversationalist? A companion? A good cook? A good friend? A good anythng?

[metamorph]

Hi everyone :) thanks for all the answers;
To address some of the things:
I cannot talk to his exes because he has explicitly forbidden it; it would be a betrayal of trust (and, honestly, I don't know that I'd want him talking to mine either about our sex lives). This aside, judging from pictures, comments etc, I can tell that he slept with them at least at a normal (or maybe low) frequency. But when you compare this to what he does to me which is, turn away, reject, refuse, be tired, etc. if I walk around naked, he looks the other way. If I lie naked in bed next to him, he makes sure not to touch me; it feels like to him I may as well be layered with blubber, covered in warts and foul pussing blisters and a leper :) (it's sad but funny :)) I don't have some numerical requirement; having sex once a week would be plenty for me; don't need to pig out on it; it's the fact that it's tending towards never that's worrying me :)


He claims his standards are a little more stringent than most; so I guess I got unlucky; I am not going to be anorexic, that doesn't work in the long run anyway;

I agree with you all that it's a little odd; other people stare at me pretty frequently; I'm pretty athletic; etc; but until I lose weight, it will be impossible to tell if he's telling the truth or making an excuse; it's possible that he doesn't know either; I know this guy prett why well though, and I can tell when he's honest; for 4 years I didn't think he was honest about not knowing why we weren't sleeping together, but I just couldn't get him to tell me; now, he seems honest about it; he sais that he decided he liked me enough and that sex wasn't important enough to boycott me;

So he's not super horny; I don't think he masturbates much; he told me he looked at porn a month ago when I was away, which was reassuring because it suggests he's not completely asexual.

Anyway, I know I'm not fat; but I'm not skinny either; or super fit; I think this guy wants a swimsuit model; and, unfortunately, he's a good companion, a good cook, and a good friend and etcetera; we have quite a fun time together; being human there are problems, but I've never met any better ones and I've been looking (though I'm only 23 and so my experience is by definition limited)

There is no blame and no self esteem or putting down involved; myself esteem is somewhere far out of his reach. If anything, I blame him for being rather shallow; but I think I shouldnt' do that;

Guys sometimes urge women to think about fatness as we think about height; when was the last time you were attracted to a really short man? I have to say, unfortunately, that guys who are shorter than me just don't seem masculine. Just like I don't seem feminine to my boyfriend. :) but what's wrong with

[metamorph]

Also, maybe it matters how skinny these guys are; maybe skinny men are more likely to want to have skinny women too? (or, should I say, ripped hot low body fat men)

[Synnen]

I don't know.

My best friend is a guy, and he's skinny. Every girl I've ever seen him with, though, has been older than he is, and on the plump side.

The thing that concerns me here is this: If your boyfriend is not sexually attracted to you, WHY is he with you? You can be great friends without sex, and then BOTH be open to dating other people.

[BetrayalBtCamp]

I cannot talk to his exes because he has explicitly forbidden it; it would be a betrayal of trust (and, honestly, I don't know that I'd want him talking to mine either about our sex lives). This aside, judging from pictures, comments etc, I can tell that he slept with them at least at a normal (or maybe low) frequency.

This is a common problem, more than most people would even guess, it's called the "sexless marriage" & you can find tons on Google about it.

The fact that he forbids you to talk to his ex's is a red flag, although I agree that normally talking to ex's about one's sex life or lack isn't usual. But if he is acting in a way that's cause for concern, asking an ex how it was with him isn't that far out of left field.

You can't judge someone's sex life (or the lack of one) by pictures, comments alone. If he did have a low sex drive with them, it could have been embarrassing enough that they both pretended in front of others that everything was more than fine in that dept, lots of couples do. Others will proclaim the problem at the top of their lungs to one & all.

He may have an undiagnosed medical problem contributing to the low sex drive that wasn't there when he was with other partners, that is possible. Getting him checked at the dr wouldn't be a bad idea but it sounds like he's willing to throw the problem all on you at this point.

And that's the real issue. Not the lack of sex but his lack of concern for you being denied your natural sex urges while doing next to nothing about that & then claiming it's your wt to make matters worse. The sad part is, he may have fully convinced himself that is the truth by now. Were his ex's that skinny when they were together? Everyone has preferences & are entitled to them but they are also often at least somewhat flexible if the right person doesn't meet the exact wishlist. Otherwise, many women would still be waiting in a celibate state for Brad Pitt to show up at their job to carry them away to paradise.

Even if your boyfriend wasn't in the mood, he could be more accomdating to your need for physical contact / sex which would help get him in the mood too. Sex is a "use it or lose it" kind of thing, not doing it regularly makes it easier to go without especially if he's not diverting his sex drive by masturbation. It can just shut down.

At this point, if he's not willing to work with you on this & refuses to consider any other solution other than you losing wt, then a breakup does seem like a solution even if you two stay friends or roomies unless you are willing & able to adapt to his way on this.

Daily Blog: Sexless marriage? - AskMen.com

According to a recent study, 40 million people are in sexless marriages -- sexless in the sense that the couples in question have sex less than 10 times a year (yikes!). The individuals that were polled offered a range of reasons as to why they were not having sex: Some cited busy lives that didn't allow time for it, others pointed to medications that affected their libidos, while others came up with the lamer reasoning that the bed wasn't sexy anymore (not necessarily because of an absence of satin sheets, but because couples often watched TV or brought their laptops or PDAs into the bedroom).

The Wifely Duty

And so we turn our curious attention to the marital therapist Michele Weiner Davis, whose new book, The Sex-Starved Marriage, is so well timed and so aptly titled that it is primed to become a cultural sensation. Davis is not particularly interested in the cause of this strange turn of events, though she tosses around the expected observations about the exhaustion that dogs contemporary working parents and the reduction in lust that has always gone along with marriage. Hers is not a deep-thinking, reflective kind of book but, rather, a get-cracking-and-solve-the-problem kind of book. Solutions? She's armed to the teeth with them. She has created a "passion-building toolkit" filled with "field-tested" techniques—none of them bad.

Newsvine - Ala. Appeals Court Ends Sexless Marriage

Ala. Appeals Court Ends Sexless Marriage

The bride might have been tipped off on the honeymoon: The newlyweds went to the Smoky Mountains, where they slept in separate tents. Then there was the husband's complaint about her weight. Antoinette Walters Janda said she lost 65 pounds to be more appealing to her husband, Jiri Janda. But he still did not make love to her.

According to the court record, Jiri Janda came to the United States in 2001 on a temporary green card. The couple married on June 5, 2005, after a courtship of a few months. The record did not say how old they were.

Antoinette Janda, who is American, filed for an annulment on Feb. 14 — Valentine's Day — claiming that her husband had married her without ever intending to engage in marital intercourse.

Jiri Janda testified that he was truly unhappy with his wife's weight, but he also offered other reasons for the unusual relationship, saying she was messy and her personality had changed after a hysterectomy.

He said he sought a divorce rather than an annulment because that might allow him to remain in the United States. The 5-0 decision of the Alabama Court of Civil Appeals upholds a lower court ruling siding with her.

"An unstated intent, held at the time of the marriage ceremony, to utterly refuse to engage in a sexual relationship with the other party is a fraud that alters the very essence of the marriage," the court said.

Jiri Janda's attorney, James Lambert, said he was disappointed by the ruling, but he and his client had not discussed whether to appeal.

"Our argument is this is not a fraud. It's just two people in a nontraditional marriage," Lambert said.

[metamorph]

why is that a concern? I would imagine the concern should be the other way around?

if there is no sexuality, and two people still feel like lovers, love each other, and love to be together, isn't that a sign that the relationship is strong even without the sex? He sais he's with me because he likes me, we have a lot of things in common, and we get along really well; you can tell when you fall in love with your friends, right? It's not necessarily that you want to sleep with them, but that you just... love them. It's a different feeling, right? I asked him this too... but... well maybe for women love = willingness to have sex. But some men say for them it's not the same thing; they could love you but have sex with someone else who is hot. Or if they don't because fidelity was hardwired into them by culture, they could love you and think about having sex with someone else who is hot;

there is another thing; I've noticed a clear pattern with the guys I've dated, which is how how they are is inversely proportional to how hot they think I am; the ugly ones think I'm hot, and the hot ones think I'm not; funny, huh?

[Synnen]

Loving a friend and having the hots for someone is completely differently.

The person you marry should be a person you have BOTH with---friendship AND hots.

Otherwise, why not just be friends? If there is no sexual urge, what's the difference between that relationship and a really close friendship?

Don't get me wrong--I love my best friend to death. He's pretty cute, too. But--he's my friend! My husband is the one I have the hots for--and he's my friend too. You can be incredibly close to someone, and love someone, without being in a relationship with them. If you're IN love with someone, though, making THEM feel good is better than making yourself feel good, most of the time--and it doesn't sound like your guy is into making YOU feel good. Doesn't sound like he's telling you that he thinks you're hot, either--and, frankly, my husband may not be Johnny Depp, but he's the hottest guy in MY life. You probably wouldn't think so, but *I* do, and that's why I married him.

Attraction isn't just looks, is what I'm saying. Even if you WERE a swimsuit model, I doubt your guy would be automatically in the mood for some hot sex sessions--he'd find ANOTHER reason why you weren't good enough to have sex with.

Sex is a big part of a healthy romantic relationship. It's too hooked into our self-esteem, and our connection to our partners to NOT be a big part of it. If he's not willing to admit that there's a problem, then you have bigger issues than him telling you that you're fat--which you're not. If he was truly in love with you, he'd probably find you attractive regardless your size.

Perfect example of that---When I met my husband 12 years ago, I weighed 120 lbs when I was soaking wet in a snowsuit. I now weigh 170 lbs, and no--we didn't have a baby in between there. That's a 50 lb difference, and I *still* know that he has the hots for me, and wants my body.

It's your life--but I think you'd be making a mistake to accept blindly that it's your weight he has a problem with.

[BetrayalBtCamp]

Some sexless marriages have people in them that due to illness or injury can not have sex, that doesn't mean their marriage is any less valid or loving or strong.

But when the couple is young, there is no medical reason not to, the issue does become why not & what does it say about the strength of that union.

The drive to have sex & especially with someone that matters to us is a strong one but we also live in an age where time is at premium & stress incredibly high. If both are OK with their sex life, that's fine but when one is feeling deprived, unloved & unappreciated that's not.

[Ash123]

Friends...

Is perhaps your fate.

I'm sorry for your lack of intimacy at this point.
You are in a respectful and not abusive situation. But perhaps not quite a relationship.
Now it may be time to see what you can be - or not be - with this respect intact. And get intimacy and love in your life.
And one day you and your friend can be in touch down the road if and when it's appropriate.

[beekay2008]

"When you're safe at home you wish you were having an adventure; when you're having an adventure you wish you were safe at home." Thornton Wilder
You do not live in Canada do you? If you do please let me know, I will care for you, take good care of you and you and make him grow with envy - he will come on his knees begging. Even if you were 200lbs - beauty is inward, and not outward - don't let anyone beat on you, and make you lose your self-esteem.

[Choux]

When you think about what to do going forward, you have to consider that you accepted *four years* of virtual celibacy, four years. That is kind of an indication that you aren't really that interested in sex with him, as he is not interested in sex with you. That's very important. The current situation is not to be laid totally at his doorstep.

So, with that understood, what do you want for the rest of your life? You have to be honest with yourself.

I read about an interesting study done recently... what do men want? *77% of men* wanted to date in order to meet a nice girl and get married. If the girl wasn't right for him, he didn't marry her.

So, do you want to get married... do you really want to have a sex life... do you want children... these are the questions you have to think about.

I almost forgot, he bringing up your weight is just a way to control you... he's not a good guy, girl.

Best wishes to you in the future,

[Deada]

Hi I am 24 too let me tell you this he could be great at a lot of things but you don't want to be his door mat neither. For your man to have the nerve to tell you that you are fat and not attractive sorry to tell you there isn't that mush love in the world to put up with emotional abuse. You may not think that but it is and the only one that will in up hurt in the long run is you. You should drop him and get a real man that appreciate you for you rather slim or big. To me you're an average size woman that any man would fight to keep.