[Sunnywootxp]

In other words, you don't believe in God.

But if God doesn't exist, how did anything get here?



Jesus is God and man. He is omnipotent God and because He is omnipotent, He became man in order to reveal Himself to us.



Sure. God put it there. Before the Solar System was born, science says that the Universe was born as a result of a Big Bang. Before the Big Bang, science says that there was no time or space. So, nothing existed before the Big Bang.

But nothing from nothing is nothing. Yet something had to make the Big Bang. Otherwise we could have nothing today.

So, logically speaking, only something can come from something else. That means that in order for this universe to exist, an eternal Something had to have created it.

Sincerely,

De Maria

... Forget it you have your own belief and I choose to not belief on any god. But I want to know how do you know god put the solar system. Hmm what about aliens do they exist? (just a thought)

[Alty]

Personally, I believe in God but not religion, in God but not the bible, and it's working very well for me. ;)

All you can do is be the best person you can be, be good to others, make your corner of the world a better place to live in and hope for the best.

If you believe in God and believe he is merciful, then do your really think you'll go to hell because you aren't Catholic? I still can't believe that all of you can't see the contradictions. Maybe it isn't in the bible after all, but in the way you interpret the bible and the decissions you make because of it.

DMaria, I have to say that you remind me of many of the Catholics I went to school with. Very much "my way or the highway" attitude that turned me off organized relgion for good.

If anyone thinks that God is blind, that you can go to church every Sunday, sit in the pews, pray, sing, rejoice, eat his body, drink his blood and then go home and do whatever you want, then you are fooling yourselves.

The longer I'm here reading these posts, the happier I am with my choice in life. Does God accept me and my choice, why wouldn't he?

Sorry, a bit angry right now. :(

[Credendovidis]

But i want to know how do you know god put the solar system

That is what they BELIEVE !

... hmm what about aliens do they exist? (just a thought)

Most likely that they exist. Why would life have developed only on a rather tiny planet in orbit around a rather plain sun, in a rather average galaxy that is part of a rather common cluster of galaxies (etc.)..

However : captain Kirk and his compagnions is a different business. With the limitations provided by nature it is most unlikely we will ever see one. Specially as the ones that ever may have arrived here on earth did their utmost to phone home to get out of here asap...
(And who could blame them?)

:>)

.

[Moparbyfar]

Today we can witness new stars being born from collapsing gas clouds. NOT belief but fact !
Today we also witness that many stars have planets of different sizes. NOT belief but fact !
Today we also can see that supernova's explode throughout the galaxy. And such events create forces that often lead neighbouring gas clouds to collapse into suns and their solar systems.

So yes: something is happening all the time.

Strange then how there is only one earth - surely if things were the right condition for earth and life to start, there should be more of them around us? There are so many stars, why not earths? No one can explain exactly how the earth and life began scientifically, just as no one can explain exactly how God made the earth, so the decision is left entirely up to the individual whether they be deists, christians, atheists etc.

[michealb]

I believe if we want a thread to debate the merits of particular religions or non-religions we should probably go to a different thread or we might give the OP the wrong idea about us.

[Alty]

Start the thread Michealb, post the link, I'll be there. :)

[Credendovidis]

Strange then how there is only one earth - surely if things were the right condition for earth and life to start, there should be more of them around us?

There may be trillions upon trillions upon trillions of earth like planets. Who says they do not exist?

There are so many stars, why not earths?

Per average galaxy there are about 250 BILLION stars.
That means that there may be many BILLIONS of earthlike planets PER EACH GALAXY !!!

Noone can explain exactly how the earth and life began scientifically, just as noone can explain exactly how God made the earth, so the decision is left entirely up to the individual whether they be deists, christians, atheists etc.

I will be the last one to tell you that you may not believe what you prefer.
But if you want to relate to reality, than religion has an extremely poor track record.
In many thousands of years there NEVER has been any OSE for any religious claim.
Science however shows an increasing OSE record for origin of universe / evolution / etc.

What is the point of your argument?
Is your religious belief so poor and shallow that you are afraid of scientific research and findings ?

:>)

.

[Moparbyfar]

What is the point of your argument?

Argue? With you? NEVER! For the rest it would be like watching a tennis match. Better do what Michael says and stick to the subject. :D

[Credendovidis]

Argue? With you? NEVER!

Yes I realize it must be difficult for you to argue a tolerant but convinced Secular Humanist !

For the rest it would be like watching a tennis match. Better do what Michael says and stick to the subject.

This topic is called "Questions about my faith".
But if one reacts with questions about that faith, this is your reaction??
How tale telling !

:>)

.

[De Maria]

...Forget it you have your own belief and i choose to not belief on any god. But i want to know how do you know god put the solar system. hmm what about aliens do they exist? (just a thought)

The scientific evidence points to the existence of an intelligent Creator. In fact, even the scientific process itself points to the existence of an intelligent Creator. Natural laws also lead us to the existence of an Intelligent Creator.

The scientific process assumes the existence of logic and mathematics. Without these truths, we could not move forward in investigation of our universe.

1. Logic leads us to several assumptions which undergird our scientific process. First, we see that everything on this earth which has a beginning is made by something or someone.

2. The scientific evidence shows that the universe had a beginning.

3. Therefore, the universe had to be made by something or someone.

4. To postulate that the universe were not made by something or someone, would be to speculate AGAINST THE EVIDENCE.-

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Alty]

De Maria, it would be great if that were true, but it isn't.

I think you are grasping at straws trying to prove the existence of God when there is in fact no proof that God exists. You can theorize but that doesn't make your theory fact.

If your belief was fact then everyone would be forced to admit that there is scientific evidence of the existece of God, that simply isn't the case.

Like I said, it would be nice if this were fact, but it isn't.

[Credendovidis]

The scientific evidence points to the existence of an intelligent Creator.

In fact, even the scientific process itself points to the existence of an intelligent Creator.

Natural laws also lead us to the existence of an Intelligent Creator.

You keep stating that, but you have never provided any scientific evidence that points to the existence of an intelligent Creator. All you post is what you BELIEVE to be "true".

The scientific process assumes the existence of logic and mathematics. Without these truths, we could not move forward in investigation of our universe.

The scientific process tries to explain actual findings, and draws conclusions from actual findings and available supporting evidence. It is subject to repeated check and re-check by peers and anyone else, and is non-dogmatic. Unlike to what you suggest, there are no "truths" in science. The highest level in science is a Scientific Theory. And even these are subject to correction (for instance Newton's law of gravity).

Logic leads us to several assumptions which undergird our scientific process. First, we see that everything on this earth which has a beginning is made by something or someone.

Incorrect : see my previous lines above. The entire earth had a beginning, but there is not one iota of proof that it was made by something or someone. That is what you BELIEVE !

The scientific evidence shows that the universe had a beginning. Therefore, the universe had to be made by something or someone.

Therefore? What is that for wild claim? Something/someone? What ? Who ? Why ?

To postulate that the universe were not made by something or someone, would be to speculate AGAINST THE EVIDENCE.

Against what evidence?? What you BELIEVE to be evidence??

:>)

.

[Sunnywootxp]

The scientific evidence points to the existence of an intelligent Creator. In fact, even the scientific process itself points to the existence of an intelligent Creator. Natural laws also lead us to the existence of an Intelligent Creator.

The scientific process assumes the existence of logic and mathematics. Without these truths, we could not move forward in investigation of our universe.

1. Logic leads us to several assumptions which undergird our scientific process. First, we see that everything on this earth which has a beginning is made by something or someone.

2. The scientific evidence shows that the universe had a beginning.

3. Therefore, the universe had to be made by something or someone.

4. To postulate that the universe were not made by something or someone, would be to speculate AGAINST THE EVIDENCE.-

Sincerely,

De Maria

This stuff is too confusing... right now I know for both side scientific and religiously don't have any real evidence that can really prove. From what I think humans always wanted to be protected my someone else more superior then them so they keep accepting god exist. Hmm like superman why do people create it?. Well for superman in the movie there is such person that can really save the people. But for god what did he do? Hmm think back 911. Well no matter how bad or worst we made earth from primitive age to now a world of science and technology without any superior being help.

[De Maria]

This stuff is too confusing...

OK.

.right now I know for both side scientific and religiously don't have any real evidence that can really prove.

OK.

From what I think humans always wanted to be protected my someone else more superior then them so they keep accepting god exist. Hmm like superman why do people create it?.

We believe that God has put in our very nature, the desire to find Him.

Well for superman in the movie there is such person that can really save the people.

Really? Superman is real?

But for god what did he do? Hmm think back 911.

God gave man a choice. He could be good or evil. Because some men decided to do evil on 911, is not God's fault.

However, from that evil deed God has inspired men to do much good.

Well no matter how bad or worst we made earth from primitive age to now a world of science and technology without any superior being help.

Only if you ignore the fact that your wisdom had to come from somewhere. It couldn't have come from inanimate rocks.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

You keep stating that, but you have never provided any scientific evidence that points to the existence of an intelligent Creator. All you post is what you BELIEVE to be "true".


The scientific process tries to explain actual findings, and draws conclusions from actual findings and available supporting evidence. It is subject to repeated check and re-check by peers and anyone else, and is non-dogmatic. Unlike to what you suggest, there are no "truths" in science. The highest level in science is a Scientific Theory. And even these are subject to correction (for instance Newton's law of gravity).

Incorrect : see my previous lines above. The entire earth had a beginning, but there is not one iota of proof that it was made by something or someone. That is what you BELIEVE !

Therefore? What is that for wild claim? Something/someone? What ? Who ? Why ?

Against what evidence ??? What you BELIEVE to be evidence ???

:>)

.

No sense going over that again. But you and I got to a point which you never got past.

You believe that life came from inanimate, unintelligent matter.

I believe that God produced life.

Therefore, you have faith in inanimate, uninitelligent matter.

And I have faith in God.

Which is more reasonable?

[Credendovidis]

You believe that life came from inanimate, unintelligent matter.

Once more (don't you ever read my replies?) : that is incorrect.
I DO NOT BELIEVE that life came either this, or that, or any other way.
I have stated this many times before : I do not know how life started. Science provides several good explanations, of which the rare clay auto-copy option seems to be very promising. Much better than the religious claim of an invisible deity in the sky , that can create the universe in 6 days, but can not create a perfect "manual for humanity", and therefore needs the assistence of imperfect human beings in the process to produce that manual.

NEITHER DO I HAVE FAITH in inanimate, uninitelligent matter. If I have any faith it is in the human capacity to THINK and draw CONCLUSIONS to understand what is going on around him/her. And to me that seems to be very reasonable.
Unlike all these religious unsupported wild claims, you seem to need to accept the world around you...

:>)

.

[De Maria]

Once more (don't you ever read my replies?) : that is incorrect.
I DO NOT BELIEVE that life came either this, or that, or any other way.

Then what does it matter to you what I believe? You seem adamant that my belief is wrong. If you don't know, why do you pretend that you do?

I have stated this many times before : I do not know how life started.

I know you don't.

Science provides several good explanations, of which the rare clay auto-copy option seems to be very promising.

Oh, so that's what you believe. And since my belief contradicts the explanation which you like best, you oppose it tooth and nail.

Much better than the religious claim of an invisible deity in the sky , that can create the universe in 6 days, but can not create a perfect "manual for humanity", and therefore needs the assistence of imperfect human beings in the process to produce that manual.

I don't think so. I think the conclusion that only an intelligent Creator could create this universe fares much better than the belief that the universe came from nothing.

NEITHER DO I HAVE FAITH in inanimate, uninitelligent matter. If I have any faith it is in the human capacity to THINK and draw CONCLUSIONS to understand what is going on around him/her. And to me that seems to be very reasonable.

I have faith in the human capacity to think and to draw conclusions as well.

Unlike all these religious unsupported wild claims, you seem to need to accept the world around you...

It is because I understand and accept the world around me that I believe in God.

:>)

.

Bye!

[Sunnywootxp]

OK.



OK.



We believe that God has put in our very nature, the desire to find Him.



Really? Superman is real?



God gave man a choice. He could be good or evil. Because some men decided to do evil on 911, is not God's fault.

However, from that evil deed God has inspired men to do much good.



Only if you ignore the fact that your wisdom had to come from somewhere. It couldn't have come from inanimate rocks.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Ok... if god is real why can't he come out and say Hello , Iam God nice to meet you! :D and what about those people who die in 911 I don't see God save them... and what I meant why superman are if god is real he could show us in the public like the in the movie superman be like a hero. :D Hmm what about other religion gods? I still don't see any of them pops out in front of us.

Also here some opinion found on other people...

(Heidi's Mummy)
I personally am a believer of the evolution theory for the creation of life.

Answer me this Christians, if God created Heaven and Earth and all that dwell, who the created God??

My husband's father believes in God completely and if you argue the evolution argument with him he will say things like
'it is subterfuge, put in place by God to test our faith'

What? B*llocks if you ask me!

I personally do not like religion because I feel that it is and has been the cause of a great may wars and tragedy's over the years.

'The Crusades'
911
That bunch of psychos who were targeting soldiers' and Heath Ledger's funerals because they said that they were 'fag enablers' and God was against that.

etc etc,

Anyway as you said, science has proved it we evolved we were not put here by some divine being.

Kez x


(Korey:))
Where do cavemen fall in the christain view of the creation of life because scientists have proven this?
and we have found their skeletons in fact it has been proven that we used to have tails to because over a long long long period our tails got shorter and is what is now our tail bones.I think if darwin would have known about DNA he would have gone a lot further in his study of evolution .he proved and showed that... well il give you an example so its easier to understand:
OK so say there was mabey a type of bird lets say a finch .so anyway say there was a flock of these birds that had small beaks on an island and one day a tornado hit the island and some of the birds got blown over to another island where the only thing to eat were very large seeds that needed to be cracked to eat.so lets say there was mabey one bird born with a slightly biger beek then the rest then it mated with another bird and their offspring all had slightly biger beaks and all the birds who didn't all died and the offspring would mate and so on and a long time after that we end up with a different type of bird so how did god make this finch... was it his otomatic creation because he """created""" the first finch i mean those finches evolved from something before them and so on and so forth...or backwards idk...but anyway the point is that we all evolved from one specific species...NOT adam and eve species i mean something like an ameba or something idk because it wouldnt make alot of sence that adam and eve evolved into cavemen and then back into humans......so if this is said then how can you still say that "god" made the finch and made everything ...and please dont say something like ....well i know he is my savior and all that stuff..and then say a scripture or tell me im going to hell and i should except jesus and go to church and im not correct and im illiterate because i didnt feel like useing spell chack or spelling things right or something because until I as in ME see actual evidence that what i just explained isnt true then mabey ...MABEY ill execpt "god".. sorry I ran out of room.


(crazy eyes)
first of all, scientists have not and cannot prove that evolution is responsible for all life on earth. While some of the archaeological finds may have been authentic, others were hoaxes. Evolutionists themselves have admitted that time is the savior of the theory of evolution. They can put their feet up and say time is responsible for evolution.
Supposedly, we all evolved from a single celled organism that over 'time' had grown in complexity
to produce complex living organisms. Here's the problem: single cell organisms do not 'evolve' or mutate into complex lifeforms.they can no more do so than a rock give birth to a blue whale, in other words its just not possible. Any biologist would tell you that. Also, the earth is supposedly billions of years old and therefore over this adequate amount of time all life was said to have evolved from a single cell.
here's another problem, scientists have been measuring the strength of the earths magnetic field and have found that its magnetic field strength is weakening exponentially every 400yrs. Using some mathematics they calculated the earths magnetic field strength(m.f.s) back many thousands of yrs and found that the m.f.s would have been too strong to support ANY form of life.
the threshold for life to have survived would be around 8000 - 9000 yrs ago. Definitely not the billions of yrs as claimed.
here's more proof: in physics, the laws of thermodynamics state that the universe is becoming more and more chaotic, and that the universe is in simple terms, devolving.
in other words the universe would have had to start from
a highly organized, structured form(creationism) and then become less and less organized and more chaotic(these laws have been proven scientifically BTW). It cannot be the other way around and become more ordered/structured.
and yes, while people may argue that technology is advancing, I'm referring to the universe, and ultimately, all life.
science and the bible don't contradict each other, in fact they
go hand in hand together, but people don't want to look at the
bible and creationism that way which is unfortunate.
there are so many more other ways to prove scientifically that evolution just simply cannot work.

I hope this covers all the angles for you and anyone else reading this.


That's all...

[Credendovidis]

Then what does it matter to you what I believe? You seem adamant that my belief is wrong. If you don't know, why do you pretend that you do?

But I do not argue that whatever you believe is wrong : it is you who does that all the time.
You post topics with empty claims like "Evolution proves ...." or "The Origin of the Universe proves ....".
All I do is asking you for OSE support of what you insist to be true, but which you can't provide.
Because it is only what you believe to be true...

:>)

.

[De Maria]

But I do not argue that whatever you believe is wrong :....

Good, then discussion over.