[talaniman]

So a Mu-islam or Muslim is one who submits his/her will to the will of his Lord. All the Prophets sent by God to guide humanity from the time of Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to Jesus and Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all) were muslims in the true sense because they devoted their lives to the God's mission - to take mankind from darkness to light!

This makes sense so, so all who follow in the ways of the prophets will have salvation. That takes care of the middle east, but does this exclude Buddhist, or Taoist? Or any religion that has no roots in the middle east?

[fitnahpolice]

Anyone who worships the one true God - the Creator of the heavens and the earth and everything in between - without associating any partners to Him will be saved from the eternal hell fire. God has laid down instructions on how we need to be subservient to Him and how we need to live this short life in order to gain His pleasure and the never-ending reward of the hereafter. He has sent messengers and prophets at different times to different nations to guide the people and teach them.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last and final messenger of Allah and the Holy Qur'an is the Last Testament which abrogates all the books that came before it. The Prophet Muhammad was prophesized in the Torah and the Gospel and Jesus had given the glad tidings of his coming. It is binding upon all mankind to now follow the teachings of Muhammad (peace be upon him). Every other way or ideology will only lead to misguidance!

[talaniman]

He has sent messengers and prophets at different times to different nations to guide the people and teach them.

Hate to sound dumb but who did he send to Asia again or India or America for that matter??

[al-mukhleseen]

Dear RickJ
Peace be upon you

The verse of the Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an is self evident if you read it in its proper context. If you note, the verse begins: [B][I]"Surely those who believe..." though the Jews, Christians and Sabians are mentioned thereafter, ALLAH (Glorified be HE) qualifies who the Believers are, they are: "...whoever believes in ALLAH and the Last Day and does good..."

The Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an affirms that among the Jews, Christians and Sabians there are those who subscribe to this concept of belief. What needs to be understood is that belief in ALLAH (Glorified be HE) is about an unconditional and uncompromising belief, it is about absolute pure monotheism, which in Islamic terminology is termed: "Tauwhid". There is no room for any form or concept of ALLAH (Glorified be HE) as the following would demonstrate: "Say: HE is ALLAH, (the) One. ALLAH, the Self-Sufficient Master whom all need. HE begets not, nor was HE begotten.And there is none co-equal or comparable unto HIM." (GMQ 112:1-4).

So anyone who subscribes to this concept of "Tawhid" in its pristine pure form will attain their Reward from their LORD and not fear nor grieve.

Hope this throws some light in your search for Truth.

[RickJ]

Sort of clear :o

In short then, Islam teaches that all but Muslims are doomed?

?

[talaniman]

Originally Posted by RickJ
Sort of clear :o

In short then, Islam teaches that all but Muslims are doomed?

It seems that being a muslim is more a way of life and a way to think as opposed to a label or a name, I think so all who believe in God and follow the ways of a prophet, can look forward to salvation.

[carbonite]

But as Quor'an points out if you submit to the will of God you are a muslim. I know at times I do not express it well.

The best translation that I know of is by Maulana Muhammad Ali if you can locate this. It was done in 1917 I believe.

[fitnahpolice]

Hate to sound dumb but who did he send to Asia again or India or America for that matter??????

Previous Prophets & Messengers were sent to a particular place or people for a particular time. So not just the middle east but surely to other parts as well. But Allah sent the last and final messenger & the seal of Prophethood -Muhammad (peace be upon him) - as a guide to all of humanity until the end of time.

"And We did not send you (O Muhammad) except as a Mercy to the worlds" [21:107]

Surely God is All-Knowing and He knows what the future holds. The means of information have never been as advanced as in the modern age and who knows what improvements are in store for the future. The message of Islam - the Oneness of God both in Lordship and Worship - though originating in the deserts of Arabia about 1400 years ago, has spread far and wide. The very fact that I'm writing this in one part of the globe to be read, pondered upon and replied by others from various other locations at the click of a button bears testimony to the fact that the message has spread. Most but not all Arabs are Muslims. Most Muslims are not Arabs. About 85% of the world’s Muslims are not Arabs. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population in the world. In fact, I'm not an Arab or a citizen of the middle east myself!

So to conclude, I invite you to the truth - the worship of the One God, the One who begets not nor is He begotten, the One who has no father or son nor is it befitting for him to take any partners. Becoming a muslim is the natural disposition of man and is as easy as testifying "Laa ilaaha illa-Allah, Muhammad rasool-Allah" meaning "There is no diety worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is His messenger"

If you say that with your tongue and firm conviction in your heart, hey you're a muslim! :)

[talaniman]

So the pope could be considered a muslim?

[fitnahpolice]

Originally Posted by RickJ
Sort of clear
In short then, Islam teaches that all but Muslims are doomed?

It seems that being a muslim is more a way of life and a way to think as opposed to a label or a name, I think so all who believe in God and follow the ways of a prophet, can look forward to salvation.

Yep, well said. Believe in God and follow the ways of THE prophet.

Jesus (peace be upon him) had given glad tidings of Muhammad and it is binding now upon all Christians to follow him. Muslims believe Jesus to be one of the greatest of all messengers. We believe in his miracle birth, his healing the blind and the leper and his giving life to the dead with God's permission. But Jesus never claimed divinity for that would be against his mission. Nor was he crucified as Allah says in the Quran:

"And because of their saying (in boast). We killed Messiah 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," -- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them" [4:157]

Jesus was raised up by Allah and just like the Christians, muslims believe that he will return before the end of time. But this time not as a messenger but as a leader of the muslims following the commandments of the Qur'an the legislations laid down by Muhammad. He will be a proof against the Christians as described so eloquently in the Qur'an, Chapter 5:

116. And (remember) when Allâh will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allâh?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner­self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All­Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.

117. "Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allâh) did command me to say: 'Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world).

118. "If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily You, only You are the All­Mighty, the All­Wise."

119. Allâh will say: "This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) - they shall abide therein forever. Allâh is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success (Paradise).

120. To Allâh belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, and He is Able to do all things.

[fitnahpolice]

So the pope could be considered a muslim?

I'm not aware of the beliefs of the Pope of the Catholic Church but I do know that they ascribe to the Trinitarian belief despite proclaiming themselves to be monotheistic. This is blasphemy because Jesus never proclaimed divinity for himself nor did he ask his followers to worship him. In fact he prayed to God himself like a true subservient slave. After Christ, the religion and texts were tampered with and there is clear evidence from the early centuries of the adding and expounding of books, e.g. Council of Nicea in the year 325.

The word Trinity cannot be found in the bible but it is mentioned in the Qur'an:

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh)[] created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Trinity!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs. [4:171]

Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no ilâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them. [5:73]

So coming back to your question, yea, the pope could be considered muslim if he ceases to believe and call to the concept of trinity because God forgives every sin except that we associate partners to Him.

Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allâh in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin. [4:48]

[RickJ]

This is blasphemy because Jesus never proclaimed divinity for himself

This is where the disagreement lies. In our Scripture He affirmed He is Lord. I know, though, that Islam does not accept our Scripture... so for me it is about affirming who is right about Jesus: His apostles or someone who came 500 years later.

I do not say that to demean the faith of Islam, as I believe just as my Faith teaches: "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

My initial post was looking for an Islam answer that might be as clear as that either confirming or denying... but I have yet to see it.

[fitnahpolice]

This is where the disagreement lies. In our Scripture He affirmed He is Lord. I know, though, that Islam does not accept our Scripture...so for me it is about affirming who is right about Jesus: His apostles or someone who came 500 years later.

I do not say that to demean the faith of Islam, as I believe just as my Faith teaches: "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

My initial post was looking for an Islam answer that might be as clear as that either confirming or denying...but I have yet to see it.

Yes, I agree that's where we disagree! I do not mean to demean the Christians or the Christian faith either. Just wanted to clarify the Islamic standpoint on the issue.

The affirmation of who is right about Jesus: I'd rather have Jesus say the same about himself instead of his apostles or God reveal the truth to the next messenger. Keep in mind Muhammad was an unlettered Prophet and an illiterate who could neither read nor write. So the Qur'an is not his words but the speech of God revealed unto him.

Regarding your initial post, as discussed earlier, it is true for Jews from the time of Moses to Jesus and for the Christians from the time of Jesus to Muhammad but not after that time. That would be the correct way to interpret the verse you mentioned.

[RickJ]

Thank you for clarifying.

[aghamajid]

fitnahpolice is right

[fluid identity]

I am not an expert ( so corrections welcome), I think the answer lies in the fact that Islam has always recoognised the existence of prophet Isa (Jesus) but that Chritianity (in the sense of the differing churches & differing ways to worship god) have been seen as man-made. Therefore anyone who truly worships the creator & follows Christs original teachings (ie be good to people, fllow the ten commandments, worship god NOT me, rather than what the romans incorporated into Pagan rituals etc. may have a chance on Judgement day. But the Quran is hard in other excerpts on Christianity as it is a fake religion & lot of the things that are divine are probably not divine & from an islamic viewpoint a lot of'blasphemy' (may not be the perfect word) is preached in the name of one of the gentlest prophets that existed - the main one that springs to mind where certain churches actually worship Jesus as a GOD rather than a seprate entity.

Please note that I am not a qu'ranic expert expert & this is just an educated opinion.

[fluid identity]

Hello new to the site so have just posted an opinion without following the thread. Please allow me while I play catch up!!

[al-mukhleseen]

DEar RickJ and all others,
Peace be with and upon you all

What needs to be understood is that Islam did not come 500years after the disappearance of Prophet Isa (pbuh), Islam is the Way of all Prophets from the time of Adam (pbuh) right down to Muhammad (pbuh).

Revelation, like knowledge, was an evolutionary process and evolved with the evolution of human maturity. Not all Prophets received Revelation as the Torah (Old Testament), Injeel (New Testament), Zaboor (Psalms) and the Qur'an. Some Prophets received Epistles and some Prophets merely re-enforced previous scriptures. The Glorious and miraculous Qur'an was Revealed as the Last Revelation because humanity had now reached a level of intellectual maturity and was ready to receive a Messenger like Muhammad (pbuhah) and a Revelation like the Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an.

The Qur'an, unlike the previous Revelations set forth humanity the principles for the acquisition of knowledge and its tabulation, and introduced to humanity the process by which humanity would recognize the existence of ALLAH (Glorified be HE) through this process, namely: thought and observation. If analysed thoughtfully, it would be realised that "Islam" challenged humanity to discover that through the observation of all the phenomena surrounding it, i.e. humanity, is it possible that a being or thing other than ALLAH (Glorified be HE) is the designer of such Wonder and Marvel.

For want of space, we cite but one example. When the people around the Most Noble and Holy Messenger Muhammad (pbuh) questiined him about Resurrection, the Qur'an replied in the following: "Does humanity think that We cannot assemble their bones? Nay We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of their fingers." (GMC 75:3-4). Now we all know that there is not one human being who has the same fingerprint as the other, and this was only discovered in recent history, whereas the Glorious and Miraculous Qur'an alluded to this fact 1400 years ago. There are many other such factual data in the Qur'an which, ALLAH Willing we will expound if asked to or if need be.

With Peace!

[fitnahpolice]

I am not an expert ( so corrections welcome), I think the answer lies in the fact that Islam has always recoognised the existence of prophet Isa (Jesus) but that Chritianity (in the sense of the differing churches & differing ways to worship god) have been seen as man-made. Therefore anyone who truly worships the creator & follows Christs original teachings (ie be good to people, fllow the ten commandments, worship god NOT me, rather than what the romans incorporated into Pagan rituals etc. may have a chance on Judgement day. But the Quran is hard in other excerpts on Christianity as it is a fake religion & lot of the things that are divine are probably not divine & from an islamic viewpoint a lot of'blasphemy' (may not be the perfect word) is preached in the name of one of the gentlest prophets that existed - the main one that springs to mind where certain churches actually worship Jesus as a GOD rather than a seprate entity.

Please note that i am not a qu'ranic expert expert & this is just an educated opinion.

Welcome fluid identity! Need to appreciate your open-mindedness. Surely God guides those who sincerely seek His way :)

Islam is not hard on Christianity as it considers the Jews and Christians as people of the book (scripture) and muslims are allowed to eat their slaughtered meat and marry their women. But Islam is surely critical of the innovations introduced by the Christians after Jesus (peace be upon him). And if introducing partners to the divinity of the One God is not blasphemy, what is?

[talaniman]

Just curious, how does the muslims deal with those who have opposing views and will not convert? Can there be peace say with Buddhist or hindi's?