[Credendovidis]

Not sure where Cred gets his version of the golden rule, as it is from the negative, which is consistent with several religions. What Jesus said differs in that it is totally positive.

The golden rule as source of moral and ethical thinking already existed a long time in many societies, long before Jesus was born. Whatever twist Jesus gave to his version of the golden rule is totally irrelevant.

All that is important with the golden rule is the principle and the result. Not if it is suggested in a positive or negative way.

:rolleyes:

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[inthebox]

With the US society claiming in great majority to be Christian, it is not surprising that the majority of such organizations are Christian. So that is no argument, as I never stated that Christians as group are "no good". I asked in the last post : how "good" is religion actually ?


So your are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be right. I am concerned with the reality, with the question if religions are "good" or not.

The belief and reality of Christianity is tied to God. If we could be "good" to our own definition or to the world's standard, there is no need for God's salvation.

So again : your are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be good. (Salvation is a religious claim). Also you BELIEVE that salvation is the "ultimate good." But is salvation more than just a belief, and is it the "ultimate good."??

To this Christian it is :)

No they don't, because they do not see any need for "salvation" as reality.

So it is not a big deal, except to one's own sense of righteousness, whether one actually always complies with the "golden rule."

The golden rule. Appliable to everyone and valid as such.


Should be. I see no reason to think differently. Note : not every non-believer is an Atheist. Not every Atheist is a Secular Humanist. Please use capitals to describe these groups of world views. I do my best to use capitals to describe religions.


Easy to ask, difficult to answer. "Good" in the sense as appropriate on the Religious Discussion Board is based on the intention not to harm others deliberately.
The golden rule says it all : "do not do to others what you do not want to be done to you."
And anyone who seriously has that intention is "good", though never "perfect".

:rolleyes:

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With no standard or absolute truth, the Golden Rule is only what you believe and expect others to follow :confused: . This is the same as the Religion of the "golde rule" wanting others to believe and act as the Religion of the "golden rule" dictates.:)



How about to the masochist or the substance addicted?

Or to the rascist, who might see someone different from themselves as NOT equal to "themselves?"

The golden rule says it all : "do not do to others what you do not want to be done to you."

This leaves "sins of ommission" out of the equation.

To feed the hungry, care for the ill, visit prisoners etc...

Did you also mean to include...

Ethic of reciprocity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Matthew 7:12
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

:D

[Credendovidis]

The belief and reality of Christianity is tied to God. etc., etc., etc.

Please note : you can make your replies as long as you want. I'll only read as far as stamina allows, and I'll only reply to the essence of your posts from now. So if you want me to reply to what you want to say, please keep it short and to the point. Your habit of increasing the size of your replies beyond anything realistic when you fail to have real arguments/answers causes your posts to become rather uninteresting.

There is no OSE to assume reality for Christianity and/or God's existence.

All claims made about God, Creation, Perfection, Sin, Salvation, Truth, Heaven, Hell, Satan, etc. etc. etc. : all of these are based on religious claims, not on Objective Supported Evidence. They can therefore not be considered as reality, and therefore not as base for logical conclusions.

:rolleyes:

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[Allheart]

What's good about Religion? Well, what's good about universities? What's good about schools?

Religion is your base, no matter what faith you are, It teaches, it guides, it provides knowledge and understanding. Similar to the concept of schools. Religion and faith, can be, if allowed, complicated.

I am Roman Catholic, and going to church, strenghtens my belief and reminds me, that the only thing truly important is the love of God and others.

I read somewhere on a different thread that Roman Catholics do not have a one on one relationship with God. That could not be further from the truth. I pray and speak to God daily... Just He and I.

[Credendovidis]

Religion is your base, no matter what faith you are, It teaches, it guides, it provides knowledge and understanding.

That may be so to you. But is does not have to be that way. All Secular Humanists prove that, as their views can not be seen as religious. And nobody can say they "have not been to school".

So your reply does not really answers the question "what is good about religion", but more what you feel that is good for you.

:)

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[Alty]

I'll try to answer the question Cred, even though everyone knows by now where I stand on organized religion.

I think that, for most people, religion is a place to congregate with like minded people and discuss the things they all agree on. It is nice to have you beliefs confirmed by others, to have a sense of belonging. We all want people to agree with what we say, what we believe, and that is something religion provides.

Most churches are run by decent priests and they are filled with good, kind, caring people. Of course there are always exceptions, seems I've encountered most of them in my life. ;)

Obviously for me church, organized religion is not something I will ever embrace. I want the right to question things, to base my beliefs on things other than the bible and the word of one priest. I want to feel free to believe in things not written in the bible, because I've seen too much evidence that not everything in the bible is true. I want to explore the world around me, go down other roads to discover different points of view, to learn different things, most religions don't allow that, it's their way or the highway.

For most religion brings comfort, for me it brings unrest, even anger. Most people tell me that I just haven't found the right church yet, or the right religion, that I should keep looking. These people look at me, at my beliefs and think that I'm a soul without a body, or perhaps a body without a soul. I'm not either of those things. I am proof that you don't need religion or church in order to have faith, maybe that scares some people, it must, otherwise why the need to fit me into a mold?

For those that find happiness in their chosen relgion, the bible, their beliefs, well I think that's great. For those that love their church the people they congregate with, that's good. For those that feel the need to convert everyone to their beliefs, why? The world would be a better place if everyone could just accept others for who and what they are, for their beliefs.

I don't know if that answers your question Cred, but hopefully it's close. :)

I have to go kill flies now. ;)

[Allheart]

Going to church, for me, is like going to His house and thanking Him. And to be very honest, it's the place I feel the safest, a love that is undescribable, a joy, that's hard not to share, and helps to open my heart even more, to those, who don't think like me, who don't look like me, who don't even like me, but yet, there is great love.

It is an uplifiting experience where a true peace exsist. No horns honking, no anger, no hurt, no pain, but a true reality, that all that is real, is love in our hearts for one another, no matter what religion, or lack of religion they practice.

There is no politics - there is no she said, he said, I am right, you are not, but just peaceful sincere reflection and peaceful smiles.

Music that touches your soul and words that you can carry with you, for the rest of the week and longer.

A realization that we all are human with faults and for each of us to work on our own faults,and not try and look at someone else faults.

It's a place to feel and know you truly are unconditionally loved, faults and all.

[Credendovidis]

... We all want people to agree with what we say, what we believe, and that is something religion provides.

Well : that may be for some. Personally I do not care if one agrees with my views or not. From me one may believe whatever he/she prefers. To me it is much more important if one is tolerant to other people's views !

... I want the right to question things ...

Actually than you can not believe in a religious sense. Spiritual thinking is based on unquestioned acceptions. You for instance ACCEPT that a deity called God exist. Without ever being able to really question it's existence. On what OSE would you be able to base God's existence ?

I am proof that you don't need religion or church in order to have faith, maybe that scares some people, it must, otherwise why the need to fit me into a mold? ... For those that find happiness in their chosen relgion, the bible, their beliefs, well I think that's great.

Good points!

For those that feel the need to convert everyone to their beliefs, why?

For some it's part of their mission. But that mission does not state anything about doing that against the will of the "victim".

The world would be a better place if everyone could just accept others for who and what they are, for their beliefs.

Hear, hear, hear!!

I don't know if that answers your question Cred, but hopefully it's close. I have to go kill flies now.

Close enough ! :)
Without you having to obey to nr. 6 (RCC=5) of the Ten Commandments : have a succesfull hunt !

:D :D :D :D :D

[Credendovidis]

Going to church, for me, is like going to His house and thanking Him.

Fine for you. Thank you for that explanation of your position.
But I intended the question more as : What is good about religion for humanity???

I know that religion did/does a lot of good things. But we have all to admit that it also did/does a lot of terrible things. Hence my question.

:rolleyes:

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[mountain_man]

Fine for you. Thank you for that explanation of your position.
But I intended the question more as : What is good about religion for humanity???

I know that religion did/does a lot of good things. But we have all to admit that it also did/does a lot of terrible things. Hence my question.

:rolleyes:

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If we all followed the two greatest commandest in the Bible "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF" that in my opinion would benefit humanity more significantly than anything else. Take time to unconditional love and accept without judgement everyone that you come across every day, and THAT outside of these debates on theology would make the greatest impact on humanity!

[Credendovidis]

If we all followed the two greatest commandest in the Bible "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF" that in my opinion would benefit humanity more significantly than anything else.

What a pity that the majority of Christians don't seem to know that, or deliberately seem to ignore that second commandment you mentioned : "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"...

:rolleyes:

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[mountain_man]

What a pity that the majority of Christians don't seem to know that, or deliberately seem to ignore that second commandment you mentioned : "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"...

:rolleyes:

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I agree it is a pity...