[holeinheart21]

Well, it's been a few months since I have been on here, and its been almost a year since I have posted a question, rather than a response to someone else's concerns. However, as reliable as love is at deceiving us, I am back on here again, however, my question is now one that I thought I would never ask.

After suffering a horrible break up, that came out of the blue and knocked me on my butt, I spent the last year single. I learned the benefits of no contact, and I continued to build a life as a single person, and developed new responsible habits and continued to improve myself with every passing day. Then, in April of this year, a friend of mine set me up with a girl, that she thought would be good for me. She is 22 years old, four years younger than me. She lives at home with her parents still, however this didn't really bother me, as I was living with my father at his place for the past year, for the reason that I lost pretty much everything I had in the previous relationship, and he was gone at various times throughout the year, and he is getting older so he definitely has been needing a hand around the house.

So we went on a few dates, and we hit it off. Unfortunately, our schedules were opposite, and she worked 9-5 and I worked a shift 12-9. I made pretty good money, and she didn't make too much money (it is never about money with me, but you will see where this comes in). Prior to meeiting her, I had been working between 65-70 hrs a week, rebuilding my life from the crumbles it was in after my last break up. Well, I slowed down on that to spend time with her, and began giving up my overtime pay, and instead taking my overtime as leave hours, so that I could get off my shift early on some days to spend the time with her. So I made the sacrifice to give up my hours and money, so that we could spend time together. Things were going really well for about a month and half to two months, until I began to notice that she wasn't really making any effort. I had left the country for a week, and called her everyday, ran up a $500 phone bill in a week, I had gotten her gift cards so she would have something fun to do when I was gone, and I had taken her on trips, because after all, this is the honeymoon stage of the relationship I thought. I wasn't doing these things necessarily to spoil her, but I enjoy travelling and she said she did too, and so why wouldn't we escape from our everyday lives and see the world. We were falling in love. However, things began to change. She surprised me and met me at the airport when I returned from my overseas trip(which was with a guy friend of mine, and was planned before I met her) and she made a comment about what would have happened if I had gotten off the plane with another girl, instead of my friend. She began to not be very affectionate, she wasn't saying thank you for anything I did for her (bringing her lunch everyday, taking her to all of these places and always being there for her when she needed someone).

I was really beginning to wonder what had happened. She was making up excuses for not wanting to stay with me some nights, but then wanting me to stay with her whenver she said. You must keep in mind though, she had said that she always got what she wanted growing up, and she never cleaned her room, did her own laundry, cleaned her own bathroom, took care of her car... she had no responsibilities of her own,because her mom and dad would do them all for her. So I began to realize that she never had to really work for anything in her life so that woud make sense why she didn't want to have to contribute to this relationship, but expected everything in return. All of this added to the fact that I was giving up my hard earned time and money so that we would have time to spend together, she didn't appreciate that I was doing so. (this is why the money comes in to play, because I was giving up everything I had worked for, and was spending money on us, because she made very little, so that we could do nice things, and she was never grateful) She even told me one day that she was lazy. She hated having to work and she had no goals. I figured it was just a slump that she was in, and that she was just saying that, but now I realize, she just didn't want to do anything with her life. She would work an 8 hour day, and say how she was totally drained and how tough her life was. She didn't have to pay a dime for her living expenses, didn't have any other obligations, except for those that she wanted herself (her car payment, cell phone bill, credit card bill, and monthly payment for a jetski that she had bought with her last boyfriend, and her dog that she had gotten with her last boyfriend). Aside from that she had no other responsibilities, but her life was so rough because she had to work 8 hrs. I was always respectful, loving, and supportive in every possible way.

Anytime anything came up about her not making an effort, she would sit there and defend herself over and over, even though it was blatantly obvious that she really wasn't making an effort. She would say she didn't know why she did this, or that, or didn't do this or that. She would believe that she was doing these things, but didn't know why. She said four times that she was leaving, only to realize five minutes later, what she was giving up. I would talk to her and tell her that there is no reason for her to just run away from things, because they will never be solved... which I think is the reason that she would just leave in the middle of conversations when she didn't want to talk about things. She knew that I would come after her, and that was what she wanted. So here is a girl, who has all of her friends seeing how good she has it, (not to sound egotistical by saying that, but really, I knew she had a great man in me, because I poured my heart and soul in to the relationship) and they were actually sitting there telling me to leave her, because of how stupid, selfish, and ridiculous she was being.

Then one day, about three weeks ago, she said that she had taken me for granted, and that she has just stopped making an effort and she was at fault for all of the things, that she had said she wasn't responsible for doing. She said she finally realized that she had a great, honest, loving person, and she was screwing it up. It took a lot for me to believe that after all the BS so far, but I thought that maybe she finally got it.

Well, just the other day, she came to my work and asked me why I was acting weird, and I had told her I wasn't. Then she asked me if I loved her and only her and would I ever cheat on her, and I told her I loved only her and would never cheat on her, and she shoud know this stuff. These questions were all coming from nowhere. I just kind of brushed it off and didn't think much of it, because honestly, this was the first sign of any caring on her part, that I had seen for some time. Well, the next day she take me out to dinner and in the middle of the meal says to me, "youre going to be mad at me for doing this, but I went in to your email account yesterday and saw that someone asked if you cared if her friend asked you to be her "friend" on myspace. I am 26 yoa, and I am well over the myspace craze, and the girl was a friend of a person I work with, that I had met before I even began dating my girlfriend, and I had only met her once, but I know my girlfriend uses her myspace everyday like toothpaste and that this would probably cause some drama, so out of respect, I said, no i dont think taht would be a good idea (now keep in mind that my girlfriend had told me from day 1, that she doesn't like girls/women, because they are bi$ches.) Nonetheles, my girlfriend checked my email account....without my permission. She proceeded to tell me that she was looking for a coupon that I had emailed to me, that i had told her about. (Now remember, she started this conversation with, "you're probably going to be mad at me") Then she tells me that she sent me a text message asking if it was okay for her to do so......somehow I never got that message, nor responded and said it was ok for her to do so. So, I said, "You obvsiously were aware that you shouldn't have checked my email account, after all you texted me and asked me if it was okay to do so, but got no response, and then you did it anyway?". Now even more crazy, is that I work in an office with a million phones and can be reached at all times....but she didnt even think to pick up the phone and call me? Well, I wonder how long she had been monitoring my email accounts now. Also, not only did she go behind my back, invade my private information, invade my personal space.....she had basically decided that she didn't trust me. After all the crap she had done, and the shadiness that she did ( I haven't even mentioned how she would clear her entire phone of messages and phone calls before each time she saw me, or that there were guys writing her saying they wanted to leave their wives and children to be with her.....).

So, I then realized here is a person that hasn't cared about anything I have done for them after the first month or so, has disrespected me, wont accept any responsibilty for their actions, has gone behind my back and distrusted me beyond belief, doesn't do anything that she doesn't have to do, and just leaves everything else for everyone else to do. So, I realized that if she can't do the simple things, even such as throw trash away from her car when she gets out, considering I clean it for her, or do her own laundry instead of saying, well why would i do it when my mom can just do it......then she would never be able to take care of herself anytime soon, or take care of her family. So i told her that I wasn't going to stick around if she was going to continue to not make any efforts on her own and in our relationship. Her response was well, I'm not going to do anything about it, and I'm not changing my ways. So I told her that I love her for who she is, but she is so stuck in her ways, that after all I had stuck through. Well, she then said that she needed to take one day, because she believed that she would then see what she was taking for granted and she would call me the next day. That would be today.

However, here is the issue. I still have an uneasy feeling in my stomach, which I guess is just perhaps the natural human reaction to seeing something that you invested your heart and soul in, crumble, even though I was the one that finally had enough. So, after a few discussions with people, I was told to not answer my phone when she calls and take this as a way out and be strong and not give in. This will have been the first time that I have ended a relationship, becasue I always like to communicate and work things out, so I have never ended a relationship. So, is it normal that I still feel uneasy about it? I mean I can now see how much she took advantage of me and just abused what she had, but I am still having a tough time convincing myself to stay strong. I guess I just dont know how to cope with being on the other side of the "break up fence".

Your input will be greatly appreciated!

[Smoked]

Cut your losses now...

No joke.. Run.

Trust issues, lack of respect, don't punish yourself by staying in this relationship.

[holeinheart21]

Okay, you have very vaild points and are 100% correct. However, how should I go about cutting my losses. Considering that she is supposed to be calling me tonight to tell me what she has figured out, should I just not answer the phone, and then just go NC? My friends have said, that I have been letting her control things and that I need to turn the control back in my direction for my own good. And that regardless of whether she ever comes to terms with her issues, she needs to realize that one day is not going to show her what she is missing. It may, but by me not answering the phone, it will most likely make her realize that she has really done, and at the very least she will be blowing up my phone, wondering what is going on... which, to be honest, would be nice to see since she never took the time out to care ever, because she always just figured I would be there... So, what should I do?

[Smoked]

However you decide to break up with her (which you know has to be done).. I would NC immediately.

If you feel you owe her some explanation then give it to her. If you don't then don't. Bottom line is this girl has violated your trust, violated your kindness, violated, violated, violated, with no concern for you anywhere in the process. Sounds like she manipulates all to get what she wants.

You need to be less concerned about "teaching her a lesson" and more concerned about you and your life. Look at it as you are doing it for the betterment of yourself. Walk away and don't look back. Don't give it another thought.

I know that is easier said then done, but if it helps think back on all the love, time, and money you shelled out for what you got in return. You will find someone who will reciprocate your feelings. This relationship is a one sided mess.

[djbowens]

Don't answer the phone! Make her wait for you to be ready to talk instead of you waiting for her. Stop playing her games and stand your ground.

[holeinheart21]

However you decide to break up with her (which you know has to be done)..I would NC immediately.

You need to be less concerned about "teaching her a lesson" and more concerned about you and your life. Look at it as you are doing it for the betterment of yourself. Walk away and don't look back. Don't give it another thought.

A light bulb turned on right above my head when I read this. You are incredibly right that I need to stop worrying about teaching her a lesson and think more about taking care of myself. I do realize this has to happen, and therefore it will, it is just difficult because I am such a flexible person when it comes to issues, and like to work on things and be patient, however, she has violated everything, even my kindness and patience, which leaves nothing left that I can do. I guess I just wanted her to realize how much she has screwed me over, but I guess that is something she will have to see on her own.

My friend also brought up a good point about her snooping and that is usually the person that is doing the snooping is the one doing the cheating, and that is why they are doing that.

Spike, I also thought that perhaps I should hear her out, but in all reality, now that I look at it, there is nothing that she could tell me today, that would be believably different, from what she said last night, which was that she wasn't going to do anything about these issues, and that she didn't see that she had it that good, and she tried to flip it all on me again by saying that I didn't love her for who she was or I would just accept that she did all these things and be okay with them. So I don't think she really needs a reason from me, because she is the reason.

[holeinheart21]

So I just thought I would give an update on how the situation went. She never called me yesterday, but did send me a text message while I was at work saying, "Did you get off tomorrow or not?". This is because she was taking the day off Wednesday and wanted me to take the day off as well. However, she didn't ever make the phone call that she said she was going to make. In fact, she didn't contact me until this morning at 830. She called once, and I didn't answer, and then she sent me a text message saying she was coming to pick up her things are my place. So, this all went from her wanting the whole day to herself yesterday, so she could magically think about things and realize in one day how much she has by having me, to asking me if I got off the next day (which in my mind, I would assume that she was wanting to do something with me), to not making her phone call and deciding that she was going to come and get her stuff this morning. So, even when she got her day that she needed, she still couldn't even follow up llike she said she was going to by making the phone call. I mean, my assumption would be that she would have realized in that one day what she had in me, and then she would call me and want to tell me that she realized what she was throwing away and she couldn't believe that she hadn't seen it, or something to that effect... but I guess, then again, that would require her having to admit to herself, that she was being ungrateful and selfish.

So this morning, after she called, I called one of my friends, and she said that I needed to leave my house, and not be there for her when she wants to come and get her stuff. So I got out of the house and she called me numerous times and then left a voicemail where she started getting attitude. My friend had told me to leave the house, because I should just take the stuff and drop it off at her house when she isn't there tomorrow. So that is the plan.

However, it is still eating me inside, that she doesn't care... well actually, at the time of writing this, she began calling my phone over and over, and she left a voicemail telling me that I was immature for not asnwering or calling her and then said, "i dont care where you are or who you are with.....because i really don't care, but you need to call me."... well I just let that be for a little bit, and got ready to leave my house for work. Well I decided to forward the voicemail I left to my friend and then wrote a text message to my friend that I forwarded it to, telling her to listen to it. Well I accidentally replied to the last message in my phone and that happened to be my girlfriend or ex girlfriend. Well all it said was, "listen to this text I got", so it wasn't bad, and my girlfriend wrote back and said, "i didnt get a text.....why dont you just call me and tell me what it said". I didn't respond and just ignored this small error. So I left the house and she just kept calling and calling.

About 45 minutes later, she now really appears to be cracking fnally, because she has still been trying to say that I'm immature and putting it all on me, but then I get this text... "Would you please just call me, so I can atleast know you are okay"... now in my opinion things are starting to click, and she doesn't like the fact that I'm not answering on her demand. After all, she just got an accidental message from me 45 minutes earlier, and she didn't know it was accidental. Any thoughts? It has been tough to this point, but does this seem like she is finally realizing she screwed up? Not that it matters, since I have made my decision, but it is nice to be on the top of things now. Let me know what you think. Is this how it is supposed to go?

[Smoked]

You guys have been together how long? (rhetorical) Do you really believe she is going to change in a matter of hours? She is realizing something.. that she needs to scurry to try and save her "comfortable relationship" so she doesn't have to groom a new man to do what she wants.

Do like your friend suggested. Gather up her stuff and drop it off at her house, to be done with this entire ordeal. Make sure someone is there to take possession of her stuff so that she doesn't try to say you left it and it got stolen.

Then you will have cut all ties... Start healing and look for a relationship down the line that the other person with reciprocate your feelings and efforts.

[lmangileri]

My friend also brought up a good point about her snooping and that is usually the person that is doing the snooping is the one doing the cheating, and that is why they are doing that.

That is exactly right and exactly what I was thinking when I read that part of the email

[talaniman]

Do whatever it takes to end this cleanly, without drama, and confusion, as it would be well worth it to have peace of mind, and end assumptions, speculations, and throwing good money, after bad. You tried it, it didn't work, or rather you two didn't work, so it time to regroup, and see what's life doing now.

Fair warning though, resist any drawn out conversations about the past with her. Trust me, they will accomplish nothing but prolong the agony.

[holeinheart21]

Well, first off, I will start by saying, that, there really is only me to blame for the position that I am in now. I am aware of that and accept that, but in all honesty, sometimes we have to give the heart, what the heart wants. Well, I continued to give our relatinonship a chance, and my reasoning was that I believed that there was a good person inside of her, in fact I still believe that. However, she continued to lie and be selfish, and didn't really approach our relationship as though it meant a lot to her. We would have our good days here and there, but she would always be in these kinds of bad moods and never really seemed stoked to see me. I did many things to always keep it exciting and to try get her excited about things, but much of the time, she just seemed down.

Well, I gave it some more time after I first posted this, until about a month ago, and then things just got crazy. We really started having issues because she had lied so much at that point, that she needed to lie even more to cover up those lies. She said she wanted a day to think about things, because she didn't know if she could be in a relationship with me, because all I did was argue (keep in mind, 99.9% of the arguments we had, would stem from her lying about things, and then when I had caught her in a lie, she would then make up more lies, even though I told her that all I wanted was for her to just admit she was lying, and then we could work from there). So she said she would call me the next day, and let me know what she had thought about, and then we would go from there (honestly, to this point, there wasn't a thing in this relationship that she needed to think about. She had an honest, loyal and good person, and she would even say so herself, and seriously, I have been in enough relationships and have made mistakes, but have made every attempt to learn from them and to put all of the things I learned in to this relationship, so as conceited as it may sound, I was darn good to her). Well that next day, she didn't call, but instead sent a text message to me while I was at work, only asking if I had off the next day. My friends advised that she should have never neeeded a day to think about things, that if anyone needed a day, it should be me, and that there was no reason that I shouldn't even respond or talk to her again after all that she has done, unless she actually followed through and called that night. Well, she never called, so I didn't respond.

The next morning, I woke up to her calling and leaving me messages saying she was coming to pick her stuff up. She continued to try to contact me, but I chose not to respond. She called numerous times throughout the day, and I just continued to not respond. A few days later, a friend of hers wrote me a message saying that my ex deserved a good guy, and that we should really talk things out. Well, my ex hadn't even bothered to contact me to tell me that, so it seemed fishy to me. I contacted her friend and she said that my ex was crying one day at work and called her and told her to write me that message, and also told her exactly what to write. Her friend told me though that my ex had been talking about how she really saw a future with me and really wanted to work things out.

So we met and talked, and continued for a few weeks. Well, the lies just kept on going and she just kept on not caring and simply just wasn't making anymore effort. Well, I just kept on sticking it out, and then finally she broke down one night. We were going to go on vacation to Nags Head and she was lying, and she came out and admitted that she had been lying about everything for the past few months, and that she was a pathalogical liar, and she didn't know why she did it, but she just never wanted to admit to things. She finally admitted that she had been lying to her mom and her friends about us, and had been telling them that I treated her horribly, rather than telling them about all of the great things I did. She basically came clean about everything, even that she wasn't being honest to herself because she was always making up lies to pin things on me, that she knew she was responsible for doing. She even concluded that of all the issues she was having, none of them were due to me or our relationship, but she still blamed everything on the relationship. She had lied to literally everyone that she knew, had issues with having to many things, and not enough money to pay for them all, always wanting new things because everyone else was getting new things, and not being able to put money away. Even when we went on the vacation she started the first day with a lie... her friend, one of the people that she had always been telling bad things about me to, was letting her know that she had found a guy to set her up with... keep in mind, this was on our vacation to work on our relationship... Needless to say, I wasn't very happy, and well just didn't know what to believe. Well she broke down again and said that she had told her friend she didn't want anything to do with that guy, and that she was working things out with me. However, before she told me any of this she lied about it and then, when I told her I could tell she was lying, she stopped, and said, "you are right. I am lying. I don't know why but I am, and I'll stop right now". Well she proceeded to tell me that she had seen how good she had it and wanted to do everything she could to make things work.

So I told her that the only way it would work, was that after our vacation, she would have to go with me and talk to her friends and all of the people that she had lied to, and let them know the truth. It wouldn't be fair for me to have to walk around not knowing what people knew about me, especially people that were in her life, because then they would always be biased and telling her to leave... well the remainder of the vacation was great, and she continued to talk optimistically about us... then on our return home, she started talking about how she was afraid of telling people the truth, because then nobody would believe her ever again... (honestly, didn't she put herself in that position?)... but she said she would talk to them all. She said she wanted to talk to them alone though, and I guess I should have known that she most likely wasn't going to ever tell them the truth in that case, but she would just tell me she did. Three days later, she decides to tell me that she's not happy. Somehow I am again confused, she just came out to me before this vacation about how everything was a lie, and I still went on vacation with her and gave her chances, and she had everything in the world in her hands, and she still wasn't happy.. . Even more difficult to understand was that she said she really saw us getting married and really saw me as the one, and that I had been so good to her and blah blah blah... honestly, at that point, I already knew all that I had done for her, so all of that was irrelevant. She resorted to making up things, like, " you wouldn't let me hang out with friends"... well later she admitted that I had encouraged her a million times to hang out with friends, and that she just THOUGHT that I wouldn't want her to hang out with friends... well in all honesty, she didn't really have friends, so the few she could hang out with, weren't really friends and weren't really honest and good people, and she also hadn't been honest and good to them either... so that was the real issue. I only knew of them, what she told me, and to be honest, who would want their partner hanging out with a bunch of dishonest backstabbing people? Well, nonetheless, I told her, she can hang out with who she wants to hang out with... after that we didn't really talk, and she didn't really show any remorse for all of the damage that she had caused to me, and well, all of the chances that I gave her, she never said thank you for seeing the good person in me and being there for me, and giving me another opportunity. She had said she needed to work on things with herself, and well if that was the case, then do it. So, that was it. Three days later, I found out that she was out with another guy... well it turned out to be the guy that her friend was setting her up with when we were on vacation. She claimed he was just a friend and so forth, and maybe so, but that just seemed a little messed up. I would think that a little respect wouldn't be a lot to ask, and it was at this point that I realized, she never wanted to go out and have drinks when we were together, and now she had gone out numerous times, let alone, with her friends that she betrayed, and that betrayed her before. She wasn't making any attempt to try and work on all of her stresses (money, having more than she can afford, being honest, etc... ). Well, nothing I could about it, but I was still in love with the person inside of her. I wrote letter to close things out saying, that I loved her and that sometime down the rd, she had my number and could call me... no guarantee that I was going to wait, but basically putting it out there I was real (many of my friends said that it was evident how true and loyal my love was, because of all the things I had done in the relationship... but me writing this was a sense of me pleasing my heart.

Well last night, she emailed me, which has been about two weeks since last contact, and asked how I was doing and how my family and work were doing... all of my friends said don't reply... that she is just kind of lonely and having issues with me actually not calling her and talking to her. So, I didn't reply... then this morning she calls me and I didn't answer and she left a voicemail because she wanted to tell me that all of her stomach problems (which always had her in a bad mood and was always something she complained about... but she would never get it checked out), due to an ulcer, and because I had told her months ago that I thought she had an ulcer from all of the stress she had been dealing with in her past relationship and other stresses in her life, she wanted to call to tell me I was right. Then she said, well, I just wanted to tell you that, so I guess I'll see you around sometime or talk to you... My friends say that again this is her following up because I didn't respond to her email, and that she was getting kind of lonely because I was the only honest and true friend and lover she had ever had, and now she is having to deal with the loneliness.

So, with all that said, here are my issues. I still love the girl, and honestly, am I crazy for believing there is a good person inside of her? I am in no rush with dating someone else, and have other things that I'm focused on in my life, and would like to leave things so that they would have the best chance, that if she ever was honest with herself and wanted to realize what we could have had, that she would come back and let me know. But how?

Do I respond to her email? Do I call her back? I have to go to her office next week for an appointment and will have to see her anyway, and even though I know that my friends are right in many ways, and I should not communicate with her, and just continue to take care of me, and let her see what she is missing, however, I have to go to the office where she works for an appointment, and will see her then, so that kind of plays in to what I should do also I guess. What do you think.

Basically, even though she has screwed up in many ways, I kind of want it to be known that I realize that people screw up, and that she needs to learn to be honest, and needs to figure things out herself. I could be more angry than anyone could ever imagine for all of this, but that solves nothing. I would rather just be the bigger person, and take the time that I invested, and put it towards a possible opportunity in the future, rather than just get angry. I am just unsure of how I should handle things from here on out.

Thanks in advance!

[HistorianChick]

Wow. I'm really sorry for all of the junk that you've been put through. I have to say, while I believe that yes, people should be given second chances to "prove themselves," or to prove that they had made a mistake and that they were going to turn over a leaf... how many second chances are you going to give her? At this point, I think your heart is so involved in the relationship because of the ups and downs...

Take a step back and ask yourself what you love about her. You said that you really love her and want to give her another chance. What do you love about her? Her character? Her sweetness? Her love? Her personality?

Take that to another level and honestly ask yourself, OK, this girl as she is right now could be the future mother of your children. (We're going into the realm of what if's here, but go with me.) Would you want your daughter to be like her?

You said in your original post that its been a while since you asked a question, but have been answering other questions. What would you tell someone else that was in your situation? If I asked your question, what would you tell me?

Honesty is the best thing right now.

If you do decide to give her another chance, I recommend friends. I wouldn't jump back into dating. Be friends. Re-court her. If you give it another go, you're BOTH going to have to forget the past and start over. She is going to have to change and become someone that she hasn't been, you're going to have to forget what she has done and look at her as a new possibility.

I wish you the best of luck.

[talaniman]

One thing you are is loyal, even to a person that doesn't appreciate it nor deserves it.

Be just as loyal to yourself, and let her learn, without you, what she refused to learn with you.

No I don't respond to her at all. She had her chance, and as it stands now, hasn't earned consideration for another.

[holeinheart21]

Honestly, I have been discussing this with a female friend of mine, only in her situation the roles are rerversed... The situation however, slightly different, because she has come to realize that she hurt the other person, and after splitting with him, she has come to realize how good he was to her. She said that even though the talks with me helped her see how good he was, she needed to realize it on her own.

So, if you were asking the question, and I was advising you, I would tell you that basically it seems to be a maturity issue and that the person needs to figure this out on their own. They need to get hurt a few times, or somehow, begin to realize everything they took advantage of, especially when they admitted having done so. So I do realize that after months of sticking it out, thinking that she may realize it one day, was not the solution. She was going to have to see it on her own.

The part where I struggle is, that yes, I have been hurt by her, but is cutting off all communication really going to do anything positive? I am aware of the great benefit of no contact, from my previous relationship, but am not so sure as though that is how to deal with this situation. She wrote me and asked how I was, and my thought process is this:

I should reply to her and keep it simple. Then from that point on, don't make contact with her, but see if she continues to contact me, just reply and leave the ball in her court. I was a good person to her this whole time, and well, I would like to continue to keep that reputation. However, the risk would be that, if I still communicated with her, then she may never make the effort to see the things that she did, and how hurtful they were, and that is something that I think she would need to do. In fact, that is all she would need to do. Take this time to recognize those things, and be honest with herself so she could be honest with me and about me, and then when she was able to do that, let me know that she wants to start from scratch and not let happen again, what already happened.

I would be willing to put the past behind us, if we were going to give it another shot, but I think that she would need to first realize the severity of her problems, and make an attempt to fix them. That way, we would be starting on the right foot. That is why the email and phone call confuse me, because she was the one, not too long ago, telling me, that if she was in my shoes shew oudln't communicate with me had I done these things to her... however, some of that comment if not all of it, I chalk up to her getting caught up in the moment, and saying things without thinking, as she so frequently did. However, it has only been a few weeks, and people have advised me that it is not long enough for her to figure out all of those things, and I should wait a few months and see if she still cares.

I do see their point, but is there any validity in a decision to communicate with her first, as just people talking, then eventually evolving to friends, which would be a very strong foundation, potentially, to eventually create a new relationship upon? So, what if her writing to me and calling to share something as simple as the fact that I was right about her ulcer, is her way of attempting to begin some form of friendship? She has never been very good at coming out and just saying things. If I don't respond, this time, am I risking it never happening again? Or is that a way to tell what her real feelings are, meaning, that if she really cares, she will attempt to contact me again? If she does, how many times do I let her contact me before I respond?

As for what I loved about her... well I saw her beautiful, inside and out, and that was what I loved about her. She had many qualities that I would admire in the mother of my children, but they were being kept away by her lies and her dishonesty to herself and others. However, people can change those ways about them, and in many cases it takes age and time for them to recognize the severity of such actions. We all have to learn through age and time, and in many cases, we wish we would have had someone that would just understand that and stand by us through that process.

So, that is where I am torn. Do I look at everything she has done for what it is, and be angry and hurt and just avoid communicating with her, or do I take the energy I would put in to all of that, and put it towards my ability to recognize, that she will outgrow her dishonesty and ungratefulness? It may take her getting hurt a few times from other people to realize it, if she ever will realize it, but what do I do during that time? I am not saying I am just considering sitting here and waiting like a dog, but rather how should I be to her? Communication or No Communication?

[HistorianChick]

I can't tell you to communicate with her or not communicate with her. As much that I think I know of your situation, I really only know a surface tidbit of what's really going on, the level of your love for her, and the severity of her "condition."

Your outlook on this is very similar to mine in a previous relationship - the proverbial glass is always half full of hopes that they will turn a new leaf, realize what they have and could lose, and make an "honest" person of themselves. In my case, I had to cease communications for my own sanity.

At the risk of sounding nebulous and wishy-washy, this is a decision that you have to make for yourself. You must decide if the chance of losing a future with this woman is worth your momentary aching heart... knowing that your momentary aching heart is possibly the foundation for your future broken heart. I'm not saying that it is a given that you'll have your heart broken again, but be honest, it's a 50/50 chance.

Are you willing to take that chance? That's the million dollar question. If you are willing, then commit to letting her prove herself.

But even then, when does she "prove herself worthy?" After what point is she deemed "recovered?"

My opinion is give yourself a time of "fast" from her. Be honest with her and tell her what you're feeling, tell her your conflictions, tell her what is going on in your head. Admit to her that you're scared of trying to trust her to change. Then say that you would like a set amount of time away. A month, two months, six months, whatever you decide. Give yourself that time apart from her... you'll both come back with your heads on right, and maybe your questions will be answered.

This was all rambling, but I hope it helped some. I'm just wanting you to be absolutely positive that she is worth the 50/50 chance of a broken heart.

[holeinheart21]

One thing you are is loyal, even to a person that doesn't appreciate it nor deserves it.

Thank you. Many say its a weakness, and I can see that, but I would not live any other way, and hope that one day someone will appreciate my loyalty.

Be just as loyal to yourself, and let her learn, without you, what she refused to learn with you.


You make a great point here, and you make perfect sense. This is how I have wanted to look at it, but have struggled to maintain that point of view. She relies on signs and prays to God that he will help her handle things, instead of dealing with things herself. I'm in no way putting down religion, but honestly, I think at somet point she needs to realize that she has to take responsibilty for her actions.


No I don't respond to her at all. She had her chance, and as it stands now, hasn't earned consideration for another.

If I don't respond, how do I handle the situation when I have to see her at the my doctor's office?
At what point, or what should I expect from her that would warrant her deserving of another chance?

[holeinheart21]

Well, I had a talk with my friend who had set me up with my now- ex girlfriend(they have been friends for quite sometime). She was telling me that I was wasting my time even considering waiting around for her, because of how badly she treated me and all the crap that I stuck through, and if she was willing to give all of that up, even after I had always been there and been good to her, then she was obviously pretty dumb. I explained that I was still in love with her and that I knew that I was in love with the person that I believe to be inside of her, the person that was there in the beginning and during the good times, and even there when we went on vacation in the end of the relationship, when she actually made an effort at caring.

Then, my friend said, what really began to open my mind up. She said look, she is probably never going to change. She is a MANIPULATIVE person and always has been. My friend went on to tell me how she had been like this with all of the guys before her, and that they were all good guys, who were with her, and then she would leave them, and then they would come back, and then she would leave them again and then eventually they realize her games, and just decided to say screw it, and at that point, she would then try to get them back and they had already decided to say screw it, and moved on. In one case, she even offered to by a gift for one of the guys, if he would come back and be with her. This was at the point that she had found out about another girl talking to him.

Well, it all started to make sense to me. She had been manipulative in so many ways, which was intertwined with the lies. Even when she had wanted that day to think, like I mentioned in the last post, and we didn't talk for a few days, she decided to contact her friend to write something to me, trying to get me to work things out. Instead of my girlfriend just contacting me, she had her friend do it, and even worse than that, she told her friend exactly what to say. She supposedly was crying on the phone and yada yada when she talked to her friend. And on top of that, the girl she had write me, was a girl that she wasn't even friends with anymore and whom she had been talking all kinds of trash about to me.

Even more, this would explain why she lied about everything and never wanted to ever recognize any problems, so that we could just work on whatever the problem was together and move on, but instead she would lie and tell me it was all my fault. This happened so often, which is why anytime I would want to sit down and talk about something, she would just fidget with something and not really put any attention in to what we were talking about, and so then she would just make up more lies. It all is so clear how manipulative she is, and unfortunately, it felt nice to hear that I wasn't the only one that she did this too, but rather this is how ungrateful she has been since high school.

It opened my mind up to be able to see that for this whole time, I had been trying to figure out where I had gone wrong, and the struggle was, that I couldn't find anywhere that I had. So everyday was 24 hrs of trying to figure that out, and the real answer was, I HADN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG! This is not to say I'm perfect, but because of the lies that she had been telling it was so hard for me to understand and find any answers. Well, now I was able to see that really I had been amazing to her, I had done everything I could and all I wanted in return was her love and honest, and she couldn't even do that. I gave her chance after chance after chance, and gave her my heart and my everything, and even went against my own instincts and stuck by her, because I realized that relationships are always going to have ups and downs, and we have to just stick in there and never give up. So, that made me realize how much damage I was doing, by fighting to get her back... because by me trying to get her back, it would make it appear as though I was the one that had done her wrong, and I wanted her back so badly, and it made her look like she was actually so great. When in fact, by not getting her back, people wouldn't understand why if she was so great, then why wouldn't I be trying to get her back... and on top of that, well all the people around us, know her manipulative reputation.

So I called her today, and met with her for a brief moment, and I told her this, "I am the one for you. I have been the one for you the whole time. You are out having fun and doing your own thing now, but I believe that someday you will wake up and realize that I am you guy. I stuck by you through everything and never gave up, and someday you will see that". I left it at that and then left. I wasn't mean in anyway, but rather just said it to her in a calm manner. When she was standing there, she kind of had this "hard" type of attitude, like she didn't really care. I mean I am not sure how to perceive that, but that is how she always is, in a sense, its like she is so full of herself and therefore can't show her soft side, but keep in mind, this is the same person that wanted to know how I was doing just a few days before.

The reason for that was basically saying, look I know how good I was too her, and I know that one day she will see that too. That there is no reason for me to sit her and be angry with myself when I gave her my everything, and she was just too ungrateful to take it. Also, I needed to stop trying to find where I did anything wrong, and instead put on my happy and confidence face, because after all, I hadn't done anything, and this way people would be able to see that, well, she had stuck to her reputation.

I also figured that would be something for her to think about all the times that she gets screwed over or every time that she is lonely. I mean I believe that I stuck it out through all of this, for a reason. And many people still say I would be crazy to take her back ever again, because she needs to grow up and may never do that. However, if one day she does, then I can't imagine how she wouldn't every be able to see the kind of person I was to her. Then again she may never grow up I guess, and she may never recognize that, but that is nothing I can control. She seems to rely on God to point her in the right direction, and well, if that is the case, I can't see him letting happiness surround her, if she continues her manipulative ways. Karma!

So what do you think about all of this?

What do you think about what I said?

Do you think this will be effective?

Do you think it was a good thing for me to do?

What was the purpose of her email a few days ago? Loneliness?
I mean I asked today and she said she just wanted to know how I was doing and how my family was doing , but granted it had only been a week and a half or so since we last spoke.

[talaniman]

If I don't respond, how do I handle the situation when I have to see her at the my doctor's office?

Its really very simple, your there for a specific reason, and you really don't have to engage in any personal conversations with her at all. Polite but emotionally unavailable.

At what point, or what should I expect from her that would warrant her deserving of another chance?

Short answer is NEVER! So forget her as it will require a lot of change on her part and she has been quit clear as to you not waiting for her to change her mind, so forget getting back together.

So what do you think about all of this?

Its obviously over and time to get on with your own life.

What do you think about what I said?

I hope you got some closure, or it made you feel better.
[quote]Do you think this will be effective?
[/QUOTE
Who knows, only time will tell. I seriously doubt it.
]

Do you think it was a good thing for me to do?

Its done, and if you feel better for it, cool.

What was the purpose of her email a few days ago? Loneliness?

Or a manipulation to keep you close. The point is moot, and therefore totally irrelevant, as your focus should be you, and not her, or her agenda.

I mean I asked today and she said she just wanted to know how I was doing and how my family was doing , but granted it had only been a week and a half or so since we last spoke.

And that's a good place to leave this, and start your healing through NO CONTACT!! That's your new agenda. Its time to let go and let the emotional dust settle and leave her and her life alone. The healing process requires time, so give yourself a chance to regroup, and rebuild, and be happy.

[holeinheart21]

Honesty is the best thing right now.

If you do decide to give her another chance, I recommend friends. I wouldn't jump back into dating. Be friends. Re-court her. If you give it another go, you're BOTH going to have to forget the past and start over. She is going to have to change and become someone that she hasn't been, you're going to have to forget what she has done and look at her as a new possibility.

I wish you the best of luck.

So, I was looking back at your response in this post, and particularly the last part where you were saying that if I was going to give it another chance, to start as friends and Re-Court her. As you said, forgetting the past, would be required on both parts and to start as friends. Now she made contact with me just a few weeks ago, but has really seemed to contact me here and there when it is convenient for her. So I have just been responding when it was convenient for me......now here is the twist of the situation.......she is seeing the guy that her friend was setting her up with when we were on our vacation in which she wanted to do whatever it took to show me she wanted this relationship.....this is also the same guy that she went out with three days after our last night together......however, she has been hiding that she was seeing this other guy, which is fine, but does this not show that she hasn't changed a bit? Does this not represent that her wanting to be in contact with me, is because it fills that void that was there when I wasn't contacting her? I mean, she is seeing the guy that she was set up with and going out with three days after our relationship.......in a sense it seems almost as though that is the closest thing to being cheated on....without the act of actually doing it. So, I look at the fact that she is still seeing that guy and wanting to be friends with me.....and on top of that she says that she is seeing things each day that she did wrong, and that it will just take a long time for her to realize them all, and that she has never totally put out of our mind, the chance of us being together again, but she can't do it right now, and she even said she didn't want to be dating anyone right now......but of course she is anyways......it all seems like games to me and that is why i haven't responded to her for the last few days. I have already told her how I felt about her since the breakup, so she knows that, but now the thing is.....should I even bother being friends with her? My friends say that she is just communicating and saying these things because she wants to feel good about who she is and wants to be able to be with that guy without having to ever think that she did me wrong........and basically she doesn't really care about the friendship...so I have taken that view of it and continuously remind myself that even putting everything else in the relationship aside, that she screwed me over when on the vacation, at a time when she was wanting to prove to herself and me, that she really wanted this relationship, and that she had been screwing up the whole time.........so that is the thought that I putin my head every time I think of contacting her.....but, then I wonder if that is part of the past that I am supposed to put behind me????? Do I gain anything from being friends with her? She knows how I feel, she knows how I have always felt, she knows that I gave chance after chance for the relationship, and she knows I was nothing but good to her.....so my thought is to just leave things as they are and not contact her. No need to explain why I stopped talking to her. If she can't figure it out then, she obviously doesn't really care, and if she does care then she will figure it out. I should just keep being me and keep doing what I do and if she really cares, then she will eventually do what it takes to get in touch with me and talk to me. If not, then it shows that she doesn't really care and it will be her loss. Sound right?

I posted to another post last night about a guy in the same situation, and I was able to give the best advice that I could on this, which is much of what I just said at the end of this post. The thing is, even though I'm pretty sure that I'm doing the right thing, I just feel like by just cutting off communication, that I am being an a-hole in a sense. I have been told by many people not to care about that, since she never cared about how bad she was to me.....and I get what they are saying, it is just difficult because that is not really the person that I am or have been.

[talaniman]

Your making this a bigger hill to climb than what it is. Your simply going about your business, and leaving hers alone. Thats how you heal, and move on.

You'll never know what motives she has for her actions, but the fact is, your broken up, and this relationship needs to be put in the past, where it belongs. You've spent enough time on what was. Now deal with what is.

After suffering a horrible break up, that came out of the blue and knocked me on my butt, I spent the last year single. I learned the benefits of no contact, and I continued to build a life as a single person, and developed new responsible habits and continued to improve myself with every passing day

Just go back to what got you healthy enough to date again.