[Starchy]

I am asking for my daughter who is at a complete loss for solutions, and called dad for help. The house is 18 years old, poured concrete foundation and poured cement floor. Lots of rain this year and lo and behold, she has water entering the house where the floor meets the concrete wall on the rear wall. She has removed the wallboard about 6 ft wide now, and vapor barrier and insulation up to a small window, and found no cracks in the wall where water might have come in. She did find water on the floor, between the 2x4 bottom plate and the foundation wall. At times the water makes its way out into the living area. The bottom plate is beginning to be moldy and will need to be replaced. There is evidence of efflorescence as well. After contacting the municipal inspectors, they advised that the municipal building code for a house that age dictates that there is a French drain around the perimeter, and is usually connected to a sump pump. She has a sump pump (on the front wall) but is has not run in years.

A contractor she contacted today, wants to cut the floor at that wall, by first cutting the wall studs at 48" high, then cutting a trench in the basement floor by removing 18" of the floor. He will then dig this out, install 12" of gravel, lay a perforated PVC pipe that slopes and drains the length of the of the room to a 2 cubic foot hole filled with gravel. Then he will cement over all of the floor that he has cut away and the room can be refinished.

My question is, should not the outside wall be dug up and new French drain be installed? New crushed stone be added below the French drain, and have that drain slope away from the house into the backyard which is not very big (20 ft. deep) and plagued with an underground spring? Possibly have it drain into a "well" of crushed stone? I also feel that an alternative to digging is that she needs to remove the deck on that rear wall and add soil to ensure that there is an adequate slope away from the foundation to help move rain water away from the foundation.

She has 2 young kids and 2 of the above options can be quite costly, so dad taking up the deck and adding soil for better drainage is the preferred route. Am I on the right track here, or must the rear wall be dug up, or is the contractor's approach the best way.

[smearcase]

Trying to get rid of water after it has already gotten into the basement doesn't really solve the problem in my opinion. First off, are the gutters working properly on the house and are they outletted well away from the house?
Is the spring a possible source of the water? Can you keep it drained with stone and a 6" pipe, that is if you can get fall and a place to outlet it? If you can do that, I would wait and evaluate it before doing anything else.
Digging outside would be my next choice and you may have to run a pipe to the sump pump.
The inside treatment (treating the symptom instead of the disease) would be my last choice, but your contractor does seem to have a good plan for that.
Check those gutters closely during a storm. They may look good normally but be overrunning in heavy rains.

[hkstroud]

Most likely that the foundation or footer drain installed when the house was built has become clog with sand and silt. Eighteen years is a little young but it does happen.

Piping gutter down spouts and correcting grading can be very effective and should be your first corrective measure.

Excavating the exterior and is the ideal solution but is costly and brings up the question of can it be drained to daylight.

Cutting the basement floor as proposed by the contractor is the next best corrective measure. However, the drainage pipe should feed into the sump pump. A dry well of 2 cubic foot won't hold enough water to make a difference.

No need to cut away 4 feet of drywall. I just did repairs behind a water proofing company for a customer with the same problem. We removed only about 12" of drywall, the bottom plate and about 6" of studs. I replaced the bottom plate, scabbed on 12" to the studs and repaired drywall.

[Starchy]

Thanks to Harold and Smearcase. Both responses are relevant and helpful. I will follow the suggestions about gutters and will improve the slope away from the house. If she goes with the tench in the house I will make sure she knows about the 6" removal of wallboard and studs and the bottom plate. Will also make sure that the trench drains to a sump pump if she goes that route. Hopefully, the improved drainage will be enough. Thanks again to both of you.

[ballengerb1]

I am going to go a little in a different direction based on my experience. Digging out side would be best except for the fact that you remove all plantings of bushes and trees and that the clog could be in the section of pipe under the footing going to the sump. It is far more common to dig inside the basement, huge mess, because you can create a totally new curtain drain 6" below the basement floor and run the water to the sump. The only thing the contractor said that makes no sense is the perforated drain needs to be fabric covered and need to terminate in a sump pump pit, not a gravel filled hole. What does he think the water will do once that hole is full of water.

[Starchy]

Thanks ballengerb1 for your informative response. I agree with your idea that the new drain cut into the floor along the wet wall should terminate into a sump pump. This contractor told my daughter that he does about 300 basements per year his way and guarantees the work for life, and is transferable to a new owner should she ever sell. Says he has never had a call back in the 12 years he has been doing this type of work. Apparently, this is his only business, wet basements. He does more than just the trench though, something about a membrane and coating up 48" on the inside of the wall, trapping the water and forcing it into the weeping pipe in his trench. I kinda like the sump pump approach however this would mean that the pump would be located in the finished family room, not exactly what one would want in this living space. The only other option that I see for an interior trench would be to cut a trench from the new one all the way to the front of the house to terminate into the existing sump pump. I think that this would be costly and messy. Probably better to dig up the outside if this is the only interior solution. Am I correct in thinking that the weeping pipe circumnavigates the exterior perimeter of the house, terminating in the existing sump pump? If this is correct, then there must be a problem somewhere in this pipe at the footing. Not knowing which way the pipe flows, one might have to dig up the entire exterior to find the problem. Yikes, lots of $$ and a big mess to say the least. Again, if I am right, a plumber with a camera inserted in the pipe ($550.00, only quote she could get) might be money well spent.
We are leaning towards the deck removal, and creating a suitable slope away from the foundation, say 8" over 6 feet, then putting the deck back in place. Will also extend the downspout a good 5 feet away from the wall. Then live with the situation for up to a year to see what happens. Obviously if water re-enters during the wait period, then something will have to be done. I had water in my basement, 2 years ago then a 6 year old house, in the spring when the snow was melting and we had a heavy rain. It rose above the window wells and poured in. Obviously the ground was still frozen and the water flowed to the lowest point, the window wells. I corrected that problem with proper grading and raised the wells and have not had a drop since. The ensuing mold in the walls was another story and that has cost about $14,000 so far. Again, thanks for your thoughts.

[ballengerb1]

I had the same window well issue in Chicago many years ago. 3' of snow outside, 10 below zero for weeks and then a warm spell and 2" rain, the water ran down my driveway like a river right into the windoiw well. One of the earlier posts, maybe smearcase, said the same thing, the original foundation drain pipe is clogged. It doesn't really matter where the clog is since the whole line needs to be removed once it has deteriorated to silt clogging. Proper grading and down spouts will help. However, if you have a high water table nothing short of a new curtain drain will solve that problem.

[hkstroud]

A couple things to ponder. In you first post you said that your daughter already had a sump pump. You state "The contractor said". What he says and what he does may not be the same thing. Has done 300 basements and never had a call back. I'd be kind of skeptical, to many variables and unknowns. You are bound to have one every now and then, that something goes wrong.

It is extremely difficult to seal water out, much easier to divert it. Once its in, you have to get rid of it somehow and a 2 cubic foot hole won't hold much.

As far as a sump pump in a living space, might not be as bad as you think. The job that I referred to, the submersible pump was put in a corner, the discharge pipe was run up inside the wall to the exterior. A clear plexiglass cover was used. All you had was an electrical cord from an outlet (which I put nearby) going to the pump. Put a chair or table in that corner, which women naturally do, and you would never know it's there.

[Starchy]

Thanks to all who have responded. I think that my daughter will do the obvious things first. Extend the down spouts 5 ft. away from the foundation, and tear out the deck so she can create a 6ft. Slope of 8" or more. Considering the poor slope on that wall, the very wet summer we have had, and the little bit of water that came in, she is hoping that the above will do. The interior wall will remain open for a year to monitor the water problem and/or solution. Digging the perimeter of the house is the best solution, however that would be very costly and difficult to complete. She lives in a link hone and there is only 4 ft. between her house and the next one on the "linked" side. If the water entry persists, then she will no doubt have to go with the interior drain solution, however she will specify a sump pump be used, not just a hole with gravel as suggested above.
Again, thanks to all for your valuable suggestions, and for having taken the time to help us. Much appreciated.

[Starchy]

Thanks sophmortimer for your response. Since the post 4 yrs ago, she called in a professional wall repair company who pressure filled the cracks in the foundation from the inside. The walls were left unfinished for about 18 months and no more water was detected. I helped remove the deck and found the original owner had installed 6 mil poly just below grade under the deck, I suppose to retard water from the foundation. I can only guess. We created a 6" slope over 5 feet and laid a patio rather than re-instal a deck. I then insulated and sheet rocked the walls and painted. One year later they sold the house and moved to a bigger one in the country. This of course presents new and different home fixit jobs for Dad. Already had to install and HRV with HEPA filter, new kitchen faucet, Laundry tub, and well, the list is endless. It's a good thing I like doing this kind of stuff!