[Starman]

I once worked in an apartment building New York City where I met this Jewish gentleman who always requested that we press the elevator button for him and open his apartment door because if he did it it would mean that he had worked and he was sinning. Is this an official belief Jewish community or is it a misunderstanding on this person's part?

[RickJ]

That's more than simple misunderstanding... it's extreme superstition.

[fredg]

Hi,
Sounds like the person just wants to feel important; having others do things for him! I don't think this comes under "sinning", for any religion!

[NeedKarma]

Please forgive the above post, it shows a lack of understanding of other religions.

I know a few Jews who have different levels of orthodox observance. Even among themselves the debate is endless as to what contitute "work" on the Sabbath.

[RickJ]

Over the years I've heard a variety of the debates over what is work and what is not... but never so extreme as opening a door or pushing a button.

Those extremes make me wonder if the guy would say he's not allowed to eat: to open a box of something, turn on his stove, press Start on a microwave, etc...
... or how about relieving himself: unzip his zipper
Flush his toilet? (press the flush lever)
Brush his teeth? (squeeze the tube).

... ok, I'll leave the poor fella alone now.

Hopefully a Jewish member will pipe in on this one.

[fredg]

HI,
I do apologize if I have "shown a lack of understanding of other religions". However, with that apology in mind, and maybe not even needed at all, can anyone shed some light on just specifically what religion or spiritual belief is there that specifically says "pushing an elevator button" or "opening a door" is "sinning"?
Thank you.

[Curlyben]

Please forgive the above post, it shows a lack of understanding of other religions.

I know a few Jews who have different levels of orthodox observance. Even among themselves the debate is endless as to what contitute "work" on the Sabbath.

I totally agree with this sentiment.
For some ultra Orthodox jews, even turning on a light switch is forbidden during the Sabbath as it is against their holy laws.

[RickJ]

Ok, I see the point. Pardon me if I've gone too far to make light of "religious" practices. :(

In my faith we have what's called superstition: In short it's taking a good thing, or even a doctrine, too far. I wonder if this is the case.

For the always wondering side of me I'd love to see an official pronouncement of a religion [branch of Judaism] that prohibits such things as these.

[NeedKarma]

fredg,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabat

http://www.practicingourfaith.org/prct_keeping.html

http://www.ou.org/publications/kaplan/shabbat/39.htm

[RickJ]

The third one is neat in that it gives some examples for each of the 39 prohibited categories.

But nowhere do we find prohibitions of the likes of opening a door or pushing a button.

[ScottGem]

I once worked in an apartment building New York City where I met this Jewish gentleman who always requested that we press the elevator button for him and open his apartment door because if he did it it would mean that he had worked and he was sinning. Is this an official belief Jewish community or is it a misunderstanding on this person's part?

The reason for this is that there is a prohibition against creating a spark on the Sabbath. I'm not sure if this is an interpretation or specifically mentioned. It may stem from the Exodus 16:23 where it said "bake that which ye will bake today", meaning before the Sabbath.Therefore pushing the elevator button would involve using electricity, creating a spark. Opening his apartment door seems going too far and I'm not sure why he wouldn't do that. But any use of electricity is forbidden. But many apartment buildings that have a number of orthodox Jews will set elevators to stop at every floor during the Sabbath.

To Rick:
This is NOT superstitution anymore that eating the wafer is. Its an interpetation of Bible.

Yes this person would not turn on his stove or microwave. Nor would he watch TV or listen to a radio. He WOULD walk to temple.


Edited:
Just looked at Need's Wikipedia link and that details it. It lists 39 activities that the Talmud (not the Bible) prohibits on the Sabbath. Kindling a fire is listed as #37. Ergo creating a spark.

[RickJ]

This is NOT superstitution anymore that eating the wafer is. Its an interpetation of Bible.

Hmm. What does that have to do with the question?. or even my comment?

We have a question as to whether there is a sect of Judaism that believes that pushing an elevator button AND opening a door is prohibited. Where would we find this sort of "interpretation"?

[RickJ]

For the record: Someone educate us and show us a recognized branch of Judaism that prohibits opening a door, and I will personally apologize not only here, but to them directly - in writing.

Starman, I am further curious: You say the guy "always...". Was this just a sabbath thing, or was it on any day?

[ScottGem]

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottgem
This is NOT superstitution anymore that eating the wafer is. Its an interpetation of Bible.

Hmm. What does that have to do with the question? ...or even my comment?

We have a question as to whether there is a sect of Judaism that believes that pushing an elevator button AND opening a door is prohibited. Where would we find this sort of "interpretation"?

That comment doesn't have to do with the question. I had already answered the question prior to making that comment. You may not have seen the portion I added which shows where to find this interpretation.

That comment was a response to your superstition remark and I stand by it. I felt that remark was almost as insensitive as another remark in this thread that was, thankfully, apologized for.

[RickJ]

I once worked in an apartment building New York City where I met this Jewish gentleman who always requested that we press the elevator button for him and open his apartment door because if he did it it would mean that he had worked and he was sinning. Is this an official belief [of the] Jewish community or is it a misunderstanding on this person's part?

Sorry, Starman, that we don't yet have an answer for you. Stay tuned, though, someone may come up with something.

[ScottGem]

For the record: Someone educate us and show us a recognized branch of Judaism that prohibits opening a door, and I will personally apologize not only here, but to them directly - in writing.

In my answer, I indicated that opening the apartment door went too far. I suspect that was more a matter of Starman's memory then the actual request. It doesn't make sense unless the resident called them to open the door when they went out as well.

But the issue of not pushing the elevator button is not uncommon. The same prohibition is what prevents them from flicking a light switch. Anything that would create a spark (kindle a fire) is prohibited.

[RickJ]

OK, I guess we're in agreement, then, in that each of us call it "too far".

"Too far" is superstition, in "religious language".

[ScottGem]

Like I said, I'm not convinced the guy asked the building employees to open his apartment door. So until we hear from Starman with a qualification of that issue, I guess we table it.

I still think the jump to label the whole request as superstition from a non-Jew without any attempt to research or understand what might have been behind it was insensitive at best.

[NeedKarma]

Sorry, Starman, that we don't yet have an answer for you. Stay tuned, though, someone may come up with something.

Did I not answer the question? Look at both my previous posts.?

[Starman]

For the record: Someone educate us and show us a recognized branch of Judaism that prohibits opening a door, and I will personally apologize not only here, but to them directly - in writing.

Starman, I am futher curious: You say the guy "always...". Was this just a sabbath thing, or was it on any day?

It was just on the sabbath.