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shykitte · Aug 8, 2008, 02:47 PM

..

xoxaprilwine · Aug 9, 2008, 10:10 AM

A little vague, would you care to elaborate a bit?

ChihuahuaMomma · Aug 10, 2008, 01:31 AM

Find out where the lack of intimacy derives and we will be better equipped to help you. Please give us more details so that we can assist.

shykitte · Aug 10, 2008, 01:46 AM

Sorry my original post was a bit long and I was trying to condense it but the editor got turned off. Anyway, here goes:

I'm 42 and my husband's 43. We've been married for 8 years, and don't have any children. He's a great guy in every way except our private life. For several years he's had diabetes and started having ED soon after we were married - but I think he already had it in a small measure even before we met. My sex drive is pretty high but he has no interest or desire at all and it's been more than 4 years since we've had any kind of sex. I would be happy if we had some sort of intimacy at least once a week, or at least a few times a month..... actually I'd be happy if we had Something, Anything! Even just holding and cuddling would be great, but he doesn't like any of that. I really miss the physical affection - like hugs, touching each other, kissing (I haven't had a real kiss for years....), and the whole experience and sensation of being close to a person you're in love with.

Looking at us, no one suspects that we have any problems. I have girlfriends but I find it hard to confide about this to them. In many ways my husband and I have a good relationship - we like each other a lot, share interests and do things together. There are so many things that I love about our life but sex is a big part of married life, and it is a big deal for me. I understand that its hard for him to function, what with the diabetes and the meds. And it cannot possibly be cured so its not going to go away. But I also think that there are options and that its very unfair on his part to ignore me and not do anything. Sometimes I think that I'm being selfish in having so much and still wanting this one thing he can't give me, but I'm really desperate.

There are a lot of responses here and on some other sites for problems like this but I don't know if any of it will really make a difference. I'm quite certain that my husband won't change. I used to try to talk to him till a few years back but he just avoided the whole issue altogether and wanted both of us to go on as if there's nothing wrong - which is what I've been doing till now. But not having any sex is now bothering me to such an extent that I think of it all the time; almost to the point of being obsessed with it. Divorce or an affair are not options; but I don't know what to do anymore.

xoxaprilwine · Aug 10, 2008, 07:37 AM

This is very serious. I understand that his sex drive is off but what about the other types of intimacy? Now you indicated that he isn't into that kind of stuff in that area and it seems to me that you have given up trying to cuddle during the movies or getting a kiss good by for work. I can see his health issues are a major factor here but that shouldn't stop him from still expressing he loves you in other ways. This is concerning, he is not getting the message because maybe there are just too many emotions that get involved from you and from him so he pretends like nothing is wrong and then when you bring it up he hides under the rugs! There is a major lack of communication here. You said that he is good in every other way and that you both share the same interests and spent a lot of time together going out and doing as you wish. Time alone or time out is not the factor. Aside from his health problems, have you guys planned a nice trip to a hot country and maybe trying to get away from it all for a couple of weeks? It sounds like you guys have a lot of stress and strain in your marriage that is only being neglected and not dealt with. One day you are going to explode! I am suggesting that a marriage counselor would be a good one for your situation. Explain to him that a lot of people go, but the way you describe it is he is hard headed... getting him to agree to this would be a task in itself. Please confirm if that is a possibility. I think you may have to alleviate the pressure of sex from him and maybe start with the small things... like cuddling, hugging, kissing, tickling and all that nice stuff. He won't be able to jump into sex right away if he is taking all those meds, be patient and try to focus on the small things. You can still give him examples by giving him these notions and maybe (when the ball is in his court) he will come around and give you the same back. The goal is to get him to open up and start showing some affection and do that for some time. I am sure that he wants nothing more then to be with you, but the stress, health and meds are not permitting him to do so at this time. He more then likely feels really bad about his situation and that is exactly why he ignores or hides from the situation. Start with the small things, in the mean time like I said a consoler for you and for him and for your marriage may be something you may want to look into.

Choux · Aug 10, 2008, 11:22 AM

Girl, you state you have a problem that you think about all the time, and then, say what will solve your problem is not an option.

What am I supposed to think of this? :)

Synnen · Aug 10, 2008, 08:52 PM

Your options are as follows:

1. Accept things as they are, and stop crying about it.
2. Leave.
3. Let him know that you are NOT going to accept things as they are, and he either fixes it or you leave.
4. Have an affair where you can get affection from someone, since your husband refuses to give it to you.
5. Let him know that you'd even CONSIDER it, because he's turned completely away from you.
6. Get him to a marriage counselor before you hate him as much as you used to love him.

shykitte · Aug 11, 2008, 01:52 AM

@ xoxapril & Synnen: Lots of good advice, and you're both right about several things. Actually, we do travel a lot. Our jobs are very flexible, so we do get opportunities to get away often. But even if we have a good time, its like being with a buddy - not with a husband! On the surface, we have a nice marriage. But underneath all the ordinary stuff, I feel upset about our lack of intimacy and when it really bugs me I find that I try to pick a fight with him; but mostly I just go on as if everything was OK. I agree about the marriage counselor but like you said, he's very hard headed! I do have to figure out a way to go together or alone...

@ Choux: LOL at your comment! :) Well, I don't want to divorce him, love him too much for that. As for having a affair, I did try... I confided in an old friend who used to have a crush on me, and he was all for going ahead with a relationship (sneak out and have sex, basically... ) but when he tried to kiss me, I couldn't kiss him back. It just felt awful and I couldn't do it! Maybe I just need some time, maybe I'm not attracted to him enough, I don't know. He's very affectionate and charming and sweet, but I really want MY guy, you know? Isn't that stupid!?

shykitte · Aug 11, 2008, 02:09 AM

@ xoxapril: You said:-

Originally Posted by xoxaprilwine

I think you may have to alleviate the pressure of sex from him and maybe start with the small things...like cuddling, hugging, kissing, tickling and all that nice stuff. He wont be able to jump into sex right away if he is taking all those meds, be patient and try to focus on the small things. You can still give him examples by giving him these notions and maybe (when the ball is in his court) he will come around and give you the same back. The goal is to get him to open up and start showing some affection and do that for some time. I am sure that he wants nothing more then to be with you, but the stress, health and meds are not permitting him to do so at this time. He more then likely feels really bad about his situation and that is exactly why he ignores or hides from the situation.

Just to clarify, I haven't put any pressure on him for sex. I've tried to be as understanding as I can, and its been... oh about 3 years since I've even mentioned it! I'm naturally very affectionate but he's not very physically expressive, and whenever I try to kiss or hug him, he puts on this long suffering face (like a joke) and lets me do it but he's never interested in doing any of that back at me!

Having said that, I do think your advice is excellent... and also your point about why he ignores the whole situation. I used to think that by me keeping quiet about all of this, he would come around himself and at least make an attempt to do something - even if there was no actual intercourse, something to just have fun... but now I realize its not going to happen, unless I do something. I hate taking the initiative though, its just not in my nature, but I know I can't expect him to so it'll have to be me.

talaniman · Aug 11, 2008, 06:14 AM

If he will not go to a counselor with you then you should go with his full knowledge to get guidance yourself. It would help educate you and lead you to the coping skills necessary to get through this difficult time.

The goal is to get him to love himself enough, to take a lot better care of himself, so you can get the benefit of his being healthy and happy.

This is a long term problem so the solution will not happen overnight, so my best advice is for you to work on making yourself happy in other areas of your life, and lead by example, what loving yourself can do for your attitude, and outlook.

I think all couples as they get time in together, must make adjustments to improve on the communications level, and even have to work harder to keep up with the changes, life throws at us.

I think a counselor can really help you with strategies of communications, at this point.

You may not be able to control him, or his actions, but you can control your own. Sometimes all we can do is deal with ourselves, and our attitudes. Just be honest with yourself, and especially with him, as I think you have let this buildup far to long, without being proactive for yourself, and him.

talaniman · Aug 11, 2008, 06:23 AM

I feel upset about our lack of intimacy and when it really bugs me I find that I try to pick a fight with him; but mostly I just go on as if everything was OK.

Picking a fight, sets up resemtments for you both! Ignoring the problem will never bring a solution.

I hate taking the initiative though, its just not in my nature, but I know I can't expect him to so it'll have to be me.

That is an adjustment to be considered. So glad cheating is not your thing as, why bring even more complications, and problems into your already frustrating situation, and I hope if it ever got to that point, have the decency to leave first.

shykitte · Aug 28, 2008, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Picking a fight, sets up resemtments for you both! Ignoring the problem will never bring a solution.

That is an adjustment to be considered. So glad cheating is not your thing as, why bring even more complications, and problems into your already frustrating situation, and I hope if it ever got to that point, have the decency to leave first.

I agree.

I really can't even imagine leaving him, or being with someone else - he is an great guy except for this one thing. That having said, I do get tempted - I wish I could say its easy to resist but its so hard, especially when there are people who are very "available".

However, when I think of possible consequences - that's a big deterrent.

Actually I've been trying to find some courage and a good time to have a talk with him. Wondering if it would make any difference though.

metamorph · Aug 28, 2008, 01:40 AM

Talk to him ; I know you've done it in the past, and you have to do it again.
You need to find out why he's doing this.

Decide you will not get angry, emotional, defensive, aggressive, or melodramatic in this conversation you will have. Any of those (and many more) emotions will sabotage your ability to get the information you need.

Given that this has been an issue in the past, and that you care about it so much, and that he knows all this, it will be hard to change the pattern. You probably ask and he probably detaches form the conversation, becomes defensive, and wants it to just be freaking over. Maybe he has a "god damned it why are you bringing up this stupid thing AGAIN" attitude. Don't get discouraged. Instead, watch carefully what his reaction is. If he gets angry, defensive etc, I think that's a clue to you.

Let's entertain some hypotheses:

1. he thinks sex is lame and doesn't understand why people bother; same with holding hands, hugging etc;

2. his libido is annoyingly decreased and he doesn't understand why. He wishes it weren't the case; but he just doesn't want to do it; ever;

3. he is angry at you/doesn't feel affection, love, emotion etc but you're too good to leave. So he just doesn't want to touch you at all;

4. he loves you, but he doesn't find you physically attractive (this is what happens to me) and he wishes you would shave/wash/lose weight/dress better/act sexy/change it up/initiate stuff/act confident etc.

Come up with more hypotheses here;

If 1 were true then when you ask him why, he would just tell you. If he thought sex were lame and stupid, he would say that, the same way you'd say it if you just didn't feel like eating maggots; you would feel entitled not to eat maggots, because that would be lame and stupid etc; so, in your talk, it should be fairly easy to tell if you're dealing with an asexual person.

If 2, he should be upset by this; he may not want to be reminded; if he wants to want sex, but his diabetes gets in the way (reminded of a YouTube journal from a MS patient who was annoyed at her decreased libido; she couldn't' feel her body most of the time, so sex just didn't feel good). In this case he should be interested in medical/psychological treatment; but he should be defensive or stonewalling; maybe his masculinity is threatened; maybe he's lying to himself and doesn't want to admit he has this problem, and you bringing it up just hurts him; if you ask kindly, and convince him that you will accept the truth, he should barf it up if this is why;

If 3 there should be other rocky aspects of your relationship; maybe his tone of voice; his level of interest; how much time he accords you; what he sais to you; are you the coolest person ever? Does he give you the, oh my god you're so amazing look? Is he loving? Etc;
If your relationship is on the rocks, no sex may be a subconscious punishment. Then you'd have other things to work on. You should know already if this is true, but maybe not; maybe there are things you do that piss him off and he just doesn't complain, but instead covertly crossed you from his hot lover list and turned you into roommate;

If 4, the rest of your relationship should feel great; no man will feel comfortable telling his wife she's unattractive. That's like a big NO NO for men. They know they'll hurt our feelings and they might think we know already (this happened to me) what we should do to restore the attraction. Let's say you've stopped shaving your legs and he thinks this is the grossest thing ever, but that it's so obvious that clearly you're doing it on purpose because you don't care to have sex with him so why bother bringing it up; he doesn't want to sound too shallow? I don't know. In this case, your problem could be solved (by some effort that perhaps you'd wish were unnecessary)

I am sure there are many other explanations; try to find out WHY; if you don't know why, it will be twice as bewildering; it may be hard to ask, but just do it;

Preempt his concerns; for example, if you think he may find you fat, ask him: "is it because i'm fat?" and before that let him know that it's OK for him to tell you (you have to mean this; don't go looking for answers if you don't want to know them. I mean, don't find out then blow up about it. You have to be prepared for the truth). You've got to be really persistent addressing his concerns here. He may be afraid that if he tells you you will be hurt; you HAVE to reassure him that you can deal;

Ask him how come he is not preoccupied by this. Tell him it's abnormal, just to let him know; if he gets defensive, point it out; as him how come it bothers him to much; and at all points, DO NOT get annoyed/angry/defensive/etc. what you're trying to do here is create camaraderie; you both have a problem. Why are you the only one trying to solve it? Ask him that, not as an accusation, but like, by the way, how come I'm the only person concerned about this? Have you given up sex forever? Do you find it unimportant? Do you want to have sex with other people? Would you mind if I did? Do you ever think about this? Do you ever notice we don't have sex? (btw, getting him to admit that this is happening was so relieving for me. I stopped being alone at that point).

Ask him if it's you or if it's him;

Tell him how much this worries you. Tell him how it feels (probably, you feel rejected, hurt, self conscious, unloved; maybe you feel like you're begging and it's degrading. Maybe you feel like he is not really your lover) if he says he doesn't know, or wants to run away from the conversation, tell him to try really hard to think of the reason because it's very important to you and it emotionally affects you. If you need to, tell him you looked online. (don't whine) but let him know. That may help him overcome his inhibitions about searching for the reason or it might help him admit it to you or to himself;

Sorry for the long rant :p

shykitte · Sep 4, 2008, 12:34 AM

@ metamorph: Great detailed post, I really appreciate it! (and no way, its not a rant at all! :) )

You made some amazing points... and I started thinking and sort of worrying about some of the possible answers for the questions you posted. I think I already have some of those answers -- like I'm pretty sure that I'm no hot lover anymore and definitely just a roommate... but how do I solve this??

Well I'll talk to him. Don't know when but I'll post once I do.

After reading your post, I went back to check other posts by you and was sorry to know about how things are with you and your partner. Did you talk to him? If you did, how did things work out?? Things any better for both of you?

talaniman · Sep 4, 2008, 05:20 AM

It is so hard if not impossible to change someone, or even persuade them they should change. You can however change yourself. You can rebuild your entire life around yourself, and love yourself enough to not want to engage in useless arguing, and wondering why he pays you no attention. Embrace things that you enjoy, and do the things that you have wanted to do. The idea is to be responsible for your own happiness, and take control of your life in a way that satisfies you.

Then you won't be dependent on him for your own well being.

sylvan_1998 · Sep 4, 2008, 06:47 AM

He should also get checked out by a doctor. His hormones could be way off. Mine were for a period in my marriage and there is nothing worse than trying to work up the interest to be intimate with someone when you just don't want too. My hormones are fixed and now my husbands are way off. So he gets shots, wears patches, and takes the little blue pill. Not the best way to have this, but it is better than not.

I feel for you. But really, sounds like there needs to be a closer look at the medical conditions.

ordinaryguy · Sep 4, 2008, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by metamorph

i am sure there are many other explanations; try to find out WHY; if you don't know why, it will be twice as bewildering

I'm not so sure that knowing why will change anything for the better. My wife of 22 years and I haven't had sex in over 4 years. I nearly made myself crazy (and I did make myself depressed) trying to figure out why, and I was able to come up with several plausible explanations-- some medical, some psychological, some spiritual. One or more of them may even be the "right" ones. But whatever the reason(s), the reality is that she doesn't want to have sex anymore, she isn't interested in trying to change that, and to be honest, after all this time, I'm not sure I would be able to respond even if she did.

Let's face it, sooner or later, most of us will have to give up sex, and quite likely intimacy as well, long enough before we die to be frustrated by the lack of it. Maybe this is tragic, or maybe not. On my good days I'm resigned. On others, I'm sad and disappointed.

I'm sorry not to have a solution to offer. All I can say is that I understand and sympathize.

shykitte · Sep 16, 2008, 10:36 PM

@ ordinaryguy: I'm very sorry to hear about you and your wife. And yes, you're right, things are probably never going to change much for me either.

It's just that... its very hard to give up, you know.

ordinaryguy · Sep 17, 2008, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by shykitte

It's just that....its very hard to give up, you know.

Believe me, I do know. Every now and then, a sudden yearning for it comes unexpectedly and makes me shudder and catch my breath. Maybe I haven't truly given it up yet. It just seems less and less likely as time goes by.

It's bad enough missing the level of physical and emotional intimacy that my wife and I did have. But what's worse is missing a level of intimacy that we didn't have, not ever, not even in the best of our times.

I have known, briefly, in other relationships, a deeper level of mutual recognition and willing self-revelation, in conjunction with an unabashedly unbridled emotional and physical passion. It's that sense of deep mutual self-revelation that I really miss, and yearn for. It seems like the emotional and physical passion would be a lot easier to give up if these deeper needs were satisfied.

shykitte · Sep 25, 2008, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

......I have known, briefly, in other relationships, a deeper level of mutual recognition and willing self-revelation, in conjunction with an unabashedly unbridled emotional and physical passion. It's that sense of deep mutual self-revelation that I really miss, and yearn for. It seems like the emotional and physical passion would be a lot easier to give up if these deeper needs were satisfied.

@ ordinaryguy: I didn't think guys like you existed... :smile:... other than in books and movies (mostly written by women~!). I totally agree with ChihuahauMomma with the *Wow*! :)

Most guys I know are wary of facing depth of any sort in a relationship. My husband would rather that I understand him and just... not talk about it. He would never want anything even remotely close to self-revelation (forget willing!), and in his case it would have to be extracted through careful manipulation, and of course without letting him know that I'm doing it!! ::laughing::

I'm not complaining. I love him for what he is. We've settled into a comfortable and functional marriage that works for us really well in many ways. I don't expect an intense love from him... BUT... I would like to be candid and open about everything, including our intimacy issues. Even if we never have sex, I want us to be able to explore other options that we could enjoy instead. I want all the fun and frolic and uninhibited passion that is part of loving someone...

Unbridled is a great word... I love all the images that brings up. In fact, I can sit and think - for an hour ot two -- of several things that I would love to do that are unbridled. ::laughing again here::

Sigh.

Anyway...

I was curious, when you said that you've "known briefly - in other relationships..." - did you mean in other relationships you've had or other relationships you've observed?