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arcura · Aug 1, 2008, 11:25 PM

How many people are like King Herod was.
He had heard about Jesus and His miracles but came to the wrong conclusion.
How many do you speculated are like that?
Here is the gospel reading from the New Jerusalem Bible.
Matthew 1: 1. At that time Herod the tetrarch heard about the reputation of Jesus 2. and said to his court, "This is John the Baptist himself; he has risen from the dead, and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him."
3. Now it was Herod who had arrested John, chained him up and put him in prison because of Herodias, his brother Philip's wife.
4. For John had told him, "It is against the Law for you to have her."
5. He had wanted to kill him but was afraid of the people, who regarded John as a prophet.
6. Then, during the celebrations for Herod's birthday, the daughter of Herodias danced before the company and so delighted Herod
7. that he promised on oath to give her anything she asked.
8. Prompted by her mother she said, "Give me John the Baptist's head, here, on a dish."
9. The king was distressed but, thinking of the oaths he had sworn and of his guests, he ordered it to be given her,
10. And sent and had John beheaded in the prison.
11. The head was brought in on a dish and given to the girl, who took it to her mother.
12. John's disciples came and took the body and buried it; then they went off to tell Jesus.
:) Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

Credendovidis · Aug 2, 2008, 05:56 AM

How many people are like King Herod was. He had heard about Jesus and His miracles but came to the wrong conclusion.

What WRONG conclusion, Fred ? That is what you BELIEVE, Fred. Can you PROVE is was a WRONG conclusion, Fred ?

:)

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Peter Wilson · Aug 2, 2008, 06:59 AM

Hey arcura, how's it goin',
I think that Herod did everything from fear, he was afraid of the people, afraid of Herodias, afraid of his guests, probably a man that had little self confidence, got to the position of power by default,e.g.. Born into it.
Probably had a easy life, able to have whatever he wanted as a child, a father who was a tyrant and murderer, who probably had many affairs.
He probably grew up with no real role model as such, even though he was taught the scriptures by his teachers.
He would have known about the Magi, looking for the Saviour of Israel.
He knew John was a righteous man who taught that the Kingdom of God was near.
He may have known his scripture stories, but had little or no understanding of them.
I surmise that as soon as he was old enough, he stopped taking lessons at all.
Perhaps he was afraid that God was bringing about a change in the kingdom and Jesus was the one that was risen from the dead, the one that he had learnt about in his scripture class, the one that would save Israel.
If that was the case, he would soon be out of a job.
Whatever it was that led him to that conclusion, it was instigated by fear.
How many people make the same mistakes today, that come to a conclusion based on fear.
If you come to a conclusion about Jesus, based on fear, then you've got the wrong gospel.
When we come to believe in Jesus, it is based on love and trust.
So, I don't know how many people would come to faith, based on fear, but I am sure of this, any that hold that view, will never know the true Jesus.
May the ministry of the Holy Spirit lead you into all Truth.

Choux · Aug 2, 2008, 02:33 PM

Hi Fred,

I think the Christianity Board is a good place to post this set of Bible verses as well as all the Bible verses you love to post.

Anyway, if the Romans didn't want to get involved in the Jewish spiritual upheaval of the time, and there were many itinerant preaching rabbis, that's good enough for me. ;)

inthebox · Aug 2, 2008, 06:55 PM

I think Herod, like myself, gets offended for being called out on bad behavior.

No one likes to be told what is right and wrong. A lot think, I'll just follow the golden rule or I'll be as good as I can be. Then to be called out like that, by John, some wild rabble rouser telling everyone to repent [ change their ways ], in public! I can imagine what the audience was saying, "Man, what are you going to do?"" Are you just going to let him get away with that?" :eek:

But I guess, God says that to all of us. Then he says trust in me:D

arcura · Aug 2, 2008, 08:32 PM

Credendovidis,
I'm sure that you know that the only "proof" I have comes from what the bible says.
I believe the bible, you don't, so there we stand; friends with different points of view on spirituality and the bible.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura).

Credendovidis · Aug 3, 2008, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

I'm sure that you know that the only "proof" I have comes from what the bible says. I believe the bible, you don't, so there we stand; friends with different points of view on spirituality and the bible.

I know Fred. That is why I asked you : What WRONG (King Herod's) conclusion, Fred ?
You BELIEVE that his decision was WRONG. But I like you to support WHY his decision was WRONG !
Can you PROVE is was a WRONG conclusion, Fred ? Or do you BELIEVE it was a WRONG decision ?

Yes, we are friends with different points of view on spirituality and the bible.
But that does not allow either you or me to make wild statements, Fred.
Either you have to say that you BELIEVE the King's decision was wrong, or you have to PROVE it was wrong!

:)

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Fr_Chuck · Aug 3, 2008, 06:37 AM

Yes Fred most attack Christians more out of fear, they often know Or perhaps "believe" in their hearts the real truth but because of fear or because of some event in their life they turn to attacking that faith in an attempt to justify their behaviors. So as in Harolds case he was in fear of all the events to come, If he had not actually "beleived" in the teachings he would have never attacked them.

Credendovidis · Aug 3, 2008, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

... as in Harolds case he was in fear of all the events to come ...

So is that what you BELIEVE, Chuck?

:rolleyes:

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Galveston1 · Aug 3, 2008, 01:49 PM

Herod was obviously wrong. John Baptist was not Jesus. Jesus was not John Baptist risen from the dead. Herod had his own part in the crucifixion of Jesus, who only died once. Use your head, Cred.

Credendovidis · Aug 3, 2008, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Herod was obviously wrong.

You BELIEVE he was wrong. Nothing in religion is obvious...

Originally Posted by Galveston1

John Baptist was not Jesus. Jesus was not John Baptist risen from the dead.

Both John the Baptist and Jesus are mythical figures. There is no objective supported evidence that they were more than that, although many people BELIEVE that !

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Use your head, Cred.

I do Galv. But when will you ?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Choux · Aug 3, 2008, 04:18 PM

Chuck,

You like to speak for other people, especially non-believers, but you can't do that! You are just *making stuff up*.

Speak for yourself, man!

arcura · Aug 3, 2008, 07:42 PM

Credendovidis,
Herod was wrong ins assuming that Jesus was John the Baptist brought back to life.
He was afraid of John while he was alive and probably mire so as a person brought back life.
So the bible tells us and I do believe that, OK?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

arcura · Aug 3, 2008, 07:46 PM

Fr_Chuck,
Hi Bishop,
I do agree with your post.
Free and lack of good information can cause many a person to assume wrongly.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Credendovidis · Aug 4, 2008, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

So the bible tells us and I do believe that, OK?

Yes, you believe that, Fred !

:)
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arcura · Aug 4, 2008, 12:54 AM

Credendovidis,
Yup, John, you believe as you do and I believe as I do.
It looks like everyone does that.
I sometimes wonder if there are any animals that have a belief ability similar to what we humans have.
What do you think about that?
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Peter Wilson · Aug 4, 2008, 05:33 AM

In Mathew 16 there were many opinions, perhaps Herod heard some of these rumours.
I do have one question for chuck, who was Harold, Herod's long lost brother? :)

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

savedsinner7 · Aug 4, 2008, 06:28 AM

Hardness of heart causes people to reject Who Jesus is. Having Him point out sin causes some to hate Him.

Remember, Jesus did not come to bring peace luke 12.

Matthew 21:44
Anyone who stumbles over that stone will be broken to pieces, and it will crush anyone it falls on.

arcura · Aug 4, 2008, 08:32 PM

Peter Wilson,
Herod The Great was in power when Jesus was born.
His son, Herod II, was in power when Jesus began his ministry.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Credendovidis · Aug 5, 2008, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

I sometimes wonder if there are any animals that have a belief ability similar to what we humans have.

Dear Fred

To believe anything one requires first self-awareness.
To require self-awareness you require sufficient brain power.
The limits to (religious) belief are therefore set : too little brain power and you can't believe anything.
Too much brain power and you do not require (religious) beliefs anymore to copy with life.

You might find some belief abillity in higher primates, but nothing at all will ever be similar to what humans have. Almost all animals will fall below the lower cut-off line allowing (religious) beliefs.

:)

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