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N0help4u · Jul 29, 2008, 07:11 AM

You will need to emphasis to the court that they were only guests staying for two months and then refused to leave. May not save your job if it is really in jeopardy but at this point you need to stand up for rights.
I think you have more proof on that than they do with the lies that a Judge would hopefully see right through.

kryssy325 · Jul 29, 2008, 07:12 AM

It was 3 months

May, June, July

Each $700

ScottGem · Jul 29, 2008, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

Whether they are there or not you would still be liable to whatever they charge for a broken lease but I really understand how it bothers you that your free loaders will be the beneficiaries of it in the long run.
You have to do what you gotta do and let them take you to court

Two points here. As I mentioned this complex is a large one (almost 6000 units) that has a long waiting list. So they have no problem with people ending their lease early. Its an advantage to them as they can raise the rent for the new tenant.

I don't believe these people will benefit in the long run. I believe if they try to sue kryssy, she can countersue and they will be in more hot water.

kryssy325 · Jul 29, 2008, 07:50 AM

Scott , can you call me?

kryssy325 · Jul 29, 2008, 07:42 PM

Hey guys, here's the latest...

I spent yet another day entirely on this situation. I started a pre-paid legal account because it's the only thing I can afford. I went to the property manager and asked her for any documentation that they will leave by the end of the month & she said she wasn't able to provide that and she honestly "feels" they will leave. She told me to keep between us... they have an application in and if I seek legal action, they will not be considered because they were illegally living in one of their apartments.

I asked her what happens if they don't? She said that she will start court procedures against ME to have me evicted and it may take a month or so, again I am liable to pay the rent. What if they went to court? Can a Judge order my landlord not to evict me because they are there?

I found this hotline http://www.cwtfhc.org/hotline.html while running a search online and spoke to a woman who advised me that there seems to be something strange and the property manager is lying. That they could have gone to court and just ask for time to stay here if there was no pending court *something (this law talk is not for me:), they can't just go to a court like that! She said something about a "holdover" and that I can go to housing court and speak to a Lawyer (free) for my legal rights.

The lawyer told me that there has to be a court dispute or order by someone in order for them to go to court. She ran a check and nothing came up. I told her that it's possible the property manager worked something out with them. She ignored that and told me that it would be good for me to get that notarized letter because I may be able to sue them(Scott... your right!)

I got nowhere!

Still at point A

I spoke to my cousins husband (the one's who won't leave) and he swore to leave by the end of the month or sooner and agreed to putting it in writing (notarized, with a witness) with that he asked if I would consent to them replacing the bolt lock for their safety for the month. That we will not cause harm to one another or our vehicles (my cousins on dad's side showed up and they were pissed) . I told them that I will be leaving and we can both be at peace until this is over. If they do not leave, I will be spending many nights here... me and anyone I know who wants to and I will allow them to spend night whether I am here or not etc. I'm sure any man wouldn't want to wake in the morning and see several men sleeping around while his wife and baby are here alone. Nothing crazy, just annoying. Big guys who are professional business men... they just look mean:) I know I'd leave!

Maybe that wasn't funny*

I'm tired and drained. But, I lost 13lbs!

Feel free to share your thoughts on this.

Want to thank all of you who took time to respond. Don't know what I would have done without you:)

Move & be happy;-)

ScottGem · Jul 30, 2008, 06:02 AM

As I told you, everyone seems to be telling you the same thing. The hotline, us here, the attorney are all saying the same thing. So listen.

You did not comment fraud. You may have violated your lease, but that is a civil, not a criminal matter. Yopu might want to let your boss know ahead of time about this, though. If they went to a court and claimed you tried to illegally evict them by telling them to leave in 4 days, they would be asked to show proof of that. Since they can't, no case, which is what you found out.

So everything you have found out just confirms what I told you (I don't mind you double checking, but once confirmed then listen).

You still need to go ahead with your plans to move. DO NOT under any conditions not move. I can't empahsize that strongly enough. Also do NOT give them permission to change the locks. In fact, tell them they cannot do so. Tell them you will tell the property manager that you told them specifically not to change the locks when you turn in the keys.

Here's what will happen.

1) They move out by July 31. In this case you are golden.
2) They move out by August 31. In this case you will be liable for the August rent, but you can sue them for it.
3) The landlord starts eviction proceedings on August 1. You show up at a hearing and tell the judge, that they were staying with you but you told them you were moving and they refused to leave. Judge orders them to vacate, Landlord executes eviction. They should be out by end of August.

I don't see any other scenario but one of those three, except maybe the eviction taking longer than one month. In ANY case, if you are held liable for rent past July 31, you can sue your cousins to reimburse you. And you need to tell your cousins that you have been advised by several people of this so that if they cost you money, you will sue.

So, as I told you on the phone, the worst case scenario is you owing the landlord 1-2 months rent. And I'm sure this landlord will agree to allow you to pay that over time. You then sue your cousins for that amount. But I really don't think it will get that far.

rockinmommy · Jul 30, 2008, 06:59 AM

Still in agreement!

MOVE to the new place ASAP. Yesterday would not be soon enough.

I don't think you have anything to worry about with your job. Honestly... you kindly let family stay with you. They overstayed their welcome to the point that it's a huge hindrance to you. Yes, give your boss a little head's up. Do NOT go on and on and get all worked up. Just tell them a VERY short version of the story - stay as professional as possible.

You keep getting all upset about what the cousins and the property manager are telling you. Keep in mind.... the people who are upsetting you have all been LYING to you. Why would you pay any heed to ANYTHING they say at this point???? You're playing right into their hand!

You've been given EXCELLENT advise by more than 1 source. And you're still running around like a chicken with your head cut off worrying about what the liars are telling you. Pull it together, follow the advise you've been given, and take charge!

kryssy325 · Jul 30, 2008, 09:18 AM

Thanks!

I asked my Union rep about it and he said he doesn't think I can lose my job. That's a personal matter. I did ask him to look into it for me with My boss. He told me not to worry.

The hotline people believe if it is a subsidized apt then that is a bigger thing, I had section 8 but I don't receive it anymore because my income is too high.

On the notarized letter, he wants me to agree to change just the top lock just to the end of the month which will be stated on the letter. (they think I'll have a group come in etc) Also he wants me to do it, so If any ideas what I should make sure is in it please share?

Scott, I don't think he'll do the letter if I don't allow them to change it just until the end of the month. I was going to write he agrees to leave the apartment by August 31st and if not, then he is liable to pay and rent there after. How's that?

Also, I think a Judge would give them a lot more time because they have a baby if this goes to court. Which, I don't think it will. I'm more relaxed and I know I will feel better when I'm out of here...

Rockinmommy we're almost packed:)

Tomorrow we are leaving.

Question: Should I turn in the key? I didn't want to because she said they wouldn't give me the release form until the apartment in vacant. I rather hold on to it, in case I'll be coming back with friends because living here will be unbearable.

rockinmommy · Jul 30, 2008, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by kryssy325

The hotline people believe if it is a subsidized apt then that is a bigger thing, I had section 8 but I don't recieve it anymore because my income is too high.

That's a big deal in the fact that it could/would have caused you to lose your benefits. Since you're no longer receiving benefits - no big deal.

Originally Posted by kryssy325

On the notarized letter, he wants me to agree to change just the top lock just to the end of the month which will be stated on the letter. (they think I'll have a group come in etc) Also he wants me to do it, so If any ideas what I should make sure is in it please share?

Scott, I don't think he'll do the letter if I don't allow them to change it just til the end of the month. I was going to write he agrees to leave the apartment by August 31st and if not, then he is liable to pay and rent there after. How's that?.

I would NOT agree to change locks, or let them change locks, etc. They can (and probably will) change them regardless of what you do or say. If you do it, or indicate that you know they are going to do it that's another lease breach (I'm sure your lease says the locks can't be changed.) If that's the only way he'll sign this letter (which I don't think is that big of a point in your favor, anyway), then forget the letter. Tell them that you aren't going to change the locks. They can contact management if they have an issue with the locks - since they're all such good buddies now.

Originally Posted by kryssy325

Question: Should I turn in the key? I didn't want to because she said they wouldnt give me the release form until the apartment in vacant. I rather hold on to it, in case I'll be coming back with friends because living here will be unbearable.

I think you should turn in your keys and NEVER return to this property. Take a TON of pictures of the condition of the place when you leave. You may still be held responsible for any damage they do, but at least you'll have something to show how you left it. Take the keys to the office and get SOMETHING from them in writing that you turned in your keys. Tell them you don't expect a release, but that you need a receipt of some sort showing that you turned in keys.

Do NOT go back there with friends, etc. If this winds up in court - and it probably will - you want to be able to go in there, be professional, and hold your head up high. Not have to admit to stooping to their level and acting immature.

ScottGem · Jul 30, 2008, 10:54 AM

RockinMommy beat me to it. I totally agree about the locks, taking pictures, turning in the keys etc.

You did good talking to your Union rep. That's even better than talking to your supervisor. I didn't realize you were in a Union otherwise I would have suggested that instead.

If you want to get them to sign an agreement, use the attached agreement. If they refuse to sign it don't push. But don't agree to anything else. They have to understand they are in the wrong.

kryssy325 · Aug 3, 2008, 07:18 PM

Hi everyone, I'm at the new place and took a couple of days to get internet.

Here's the latest...

The move was a mess but we did it, I rented a truck too small and had to leave a few things behind. I told them that I will not agree to the locks being changed. I have belongings in there, need to take pics etc. We communicated by text messaging only. I told them that the last week I'll be there with friends to fix up etc.

They wrote:

1)There's no agreement to what you are saying now.

This is the response to Not allowing them to change the locks...

2)Alright, you want to play it that way, well andrew says 3 weeks is not enough, we'll need more time so there goes another month added. Ur relentless!!

I went to the place after work, and sure enough... the locks were changed!

I don't get this! I can't but they can. I could have called security and have management come in and bust it open, but I didn't bother. I'm just tired of this!

They are basically telling me to pay the rent, apt in your name, promise to stay away for a month, not damages to property and cansent to them changing the locks or... YOUR SCREWED! We'll stay another month!

I'm tired.The only good thing is my daughter is away and at least I can hide things from her. We love the new place but I can't enjoy it because my mind is on how in debt this is going to put me, did they go to the precinct and make a false complaint. Everyday I'm worried & scared about what's next. Let alone the principals. I'm angry.

ScottGem · Aug 4, 2008, 05:47 AM

You should definitely get security to come in and open the apartment (if they will), what they did was illegal. At the very least report it to property management. If they changed the locks and did not give a key to management, that may give them grounds to force a quick removal. And its not going to help them when and if things get to court. So you need to document that they did that.

Don't let them intimidate you and DO NOT pay any rent. Get your things out of there as soon as you can. Tell them, in no uncertain terms, that what they are doing and have done violates your rights and the law. That they are totally in the wrong here and that you have gotten several legal opinions that support that. So, if they persist in breaking the law, they are the ones that will suffer, not you. Intimidation can go both ways. When they are forced to open the doors for you, maybe they will learn.

Let the landlords file suit against you for unpaid rent. You go into court and you present your story that you were just doing a relative a favor. That you had informed them you were moving and they they refused to vacate when you did. That since you had signed a lease for a new place, you had to go ahead with your move. I doubt if there is any judge that would not rule in your favor. At the worst, they would rule that you had to pay the rent but award you a judgement (from your counter suit) against your cousins forcing them to reimburse you.

kryssy325 · Sep 16, 2008, 06:13 PM

Hi everyone, here's the latest...

They didn't leave on August 31, but made sure to hold me to Sept and they moved out yesterday, my neighbor who has been looking out phoned me. I am relieved they are finally out but now this puts me in at a debt of owing $2800. The lanlord madea statement that a judge had told them they can sue me! The lawyers I spoke to through the pre-paid legal service said the only way they could have sued me is if they were paying me & the landlord... whish isn't the case.

My neighbor did get the name and number of the moving company, but now how will I find them to sue them.

A lawyer told me that I can sue for what they were originally paying me, the $700 for each month but not the whole amount. Again, how will I find them?
]
I went to the apartment today and it was a MESS! And yes, they did do damage from tearing the screens, holes on the door, glass everywhere, opened my mail( I know this because papers where left regarding the rent lateness and the bill were left on the counter) and garbage everywhere. She also had forgotten something cooking and the wall in the kitchen and ceiling were black from smoke, the tiles lifted on the florr do to water damage, hole in the wall. My neighbor had informed me about running into her in the hall and it was all smoked out.

Now remember, I never went back to take the pictures because when I went back 2 weeks later, they had changed the locks and when management informed them this was illegal, they went and filed a false police harassment complaint and now I avoided any attempt to go there in fear of getting arrested (I have no idea what they said) but it was lies.

I considered leaving it as is, making some kind of payment arrangement and continue moving on, but after seeing the place I am so disturbed and simply... angry!

Any advice? I'm going tomorrow to still take pictures and then clean up.

ScottGem · Sep 23, 2008, 05:56 AM

I thought these were relatives? You should have enough info about them to find them and sue them. I would hold tight and let the landlord sue you for the arrears and the damage. When you go into court you produce your documentation that you moved out, that you had informed both your relatives and the landlord that you were moving out and that the landlord gave them advice allowing them to stay longer. And that they trashed the place after you left.

Worst comes to worse, you lose and have to pay what they say you owe now. But there is a good possibility that the judge will throw out the landlord's suit.

kryssy325 · Sep 23, 2008, 09:12 AM

Hi Scott, I just came back from the inspection and finally the lease is ended. I was able to fix the damages they did (I worked 3 days) and the property manager didn't seem to take notice. I will received a statement of any other expenses I'm aware of.

They property mananger said I wouldn't have to court and she can work out a payment arrangement with the backed up rent & the apt bill combined.

They are relatives but made sure to hire a moving company & workers so no one else in the family knows there location. I was able to get a little information. I'm not sure if I'm even going to sue because of time and the stress. I'm happy it's over and they are finally out. I've heard some horror stories where it costs people over 5000 and more.

I just want peace and to move on. This has been a horrible experience for both me and my daughter. At this point it probably would cost me more money (I don't have) and time.

Thank you so much:)

You helped me in so many ways through this:-)

ScottGem · Sep 23, 2008, 09:20 AM

This is always a scale one needs to balance. Whether its worth going after a person or just paying and moving on. It's a decision only you can make. Sure, if you agree to pay the landlord will not take you to court. And the hassle you would have to go through to collect from them may not be worth it.

My only feeling here is that if you refuse to pay and they do take you to court, you stand a good chance of getting out without paying. But you have to decide for yourself.