[smoothy]

A person with depression rarely is the one to notice the problem. Based on just your last post alone there has been an incredible amount of stress... Some people just aren't talkers.. they keep things bottled up. If on top of all of this he has experienced ED its going to have him feeling less of a man and if people start dumping on him he can quickly go down that slippery slope. With all that going on its going to be real easy for him to feel isolated.

Try talking to his doctor yourself... like I said, many people with depression are the last people to see they had a problem. And yes I have personally known several people that needed interventions to get them to treatment. One had actually attempted suicide not just once but three times.

About the 16 year olds party... I can relate to what he was thinking... it bothers the neighbors (who likely couldn't care less someone turned 16 ) and 16 is no real milestone in life... oh a 16 year old might think it is but in reality its just another birthday, 18 is th real milestone. That is more about being a good neighbor. Plus a group of noisey 16 year girls isn't most guys idea of fun. Unless they are that age group that is.

[Ash123]

It sometimes darkest before the dawn.

I would let him know that this is NOT working and you have mulled divorce.

Tell him you love him but things are going to have to change or he's going to ruin what you have for good. Suggest couples or single counseling, anti-depressants, and a renewed focus on communication. Get it ALL on the table.

He may be depressed and coupled with his diabetes and weak communication skills has turned inwards. Sometimes coming close to the end can wake us up... if not, you did all you could.

No marriage is perfect, and divorce can sometimes be worse (not always mind you) so get to work. You have given him 100% already and resent that.. BUT a counselr can help you on that - and him... whether together or separate.

Good luck! It won't happen in a week or a month but it may get better!

Time to make it clear this is not working.

Ps - so-called "perfect couples" never are - so don't feel guilty or uniquely alone.

[batybird]

In response to Smoothy: Well the neighbors did kind of care because we live on a rural road where our neighbors are roughly 1000 yards away, we all have aprox. 5 acres and the neighbors were some of the older company we had, they were playing volleyball with the kids and their children were swimming in the pool, there was NO complaints from any of our neighbors about the twins party. Our other neighbor had a 25th anniversary last week that I attended ( alone I may add) and also had dj, dancing and a very nice group. I guess I do put a lot of attention into their parties, they are only young for such a short time and they will only be living at home for 2 more years until the one goes off 2100 miles away to school. Each birthday is special and with twins it's a pretty neat occasion, they are after all only teenagers and they need their father also. I'm not sure why I felt the need to justify their party, but really the issue wasn't noise, it was more so that he couldn't justify why he didn't want to participate. He turns the TV louder than the dj was playing so the noise and all these extra people who weren't our children's friends were my friends who he takes little or no interest in. They are not rude people, they come from all walks of life, self employed contractors, teachers, restaurant owners, and retired people, who carry on very informative conversations. All of which he won't participate in, it was really just another excuse for him to avoid human contact. I know I sound kind of bitter, but I am definitely a people person, if I can't get a conversation with my husband I will talk to friends, and I basically have always taught my children, " strangers are just people you haven't met yet".

I have tried talking to his doctor, he just switched his doctor about 2 months ago though and now has not included me on his hipa form. Basically because the other doctor agreed with me.

[Ash123]

For 27 years you had intimacy and perhaps not enough communication. Now take away the intimacy and it seems like you have nothing...

You all got to talk.

You clearly are not happy so the serious dialogue needs to begin - about his anger and depression... at himself, you, the kids, the world.

[smoothy]

In response to Smoothy: Well the neighbors did kind of care because we live on a rural road where our neighbors are roughly 1000 yards away, we all have aprox. 5 acres and the neighbors were some of the older company we had, they were playing volleyball with the kids and their children were swimming in the pool, there was NO complaints from any of our neighbors about the twins party. Our other neighbor had a 25th anniversary last week that I attended ( alone I may add) and also had dj, dancing and a very nice group. I guess I do put a lot of attention into their parties, they are only young for such a short time and they will only be living at home for 2 more years til the one goes off 2100 miles away to school. Each birthday is special and with twins its a pretty neat occasion, they are after all only teenagers and they need their father also. I'm not sure why I felt the need to justify their party, but really the issue wasn't noise, it was more so that he couldn't justify why he didn't want to participate. He turns the tv louder than the dj was playing so the noise and all these extra people who weren't our childrens friends were my friends who he takes little or no interest in. They are not rude people, they come from all walks of life, self employed contractors, teachers, restarant owners, and retired people, who carry on very informative conversations. All of which he won't participate in, it was really just another excuse for him to avoid human contact. I know I sound kind of bitter, but I am definetly a people person, if I can't get a conversation with my husband I will talk to friends, and I basically have always taught my children, " strangers are just people you haven't met yet".

I have tried talking to his doctor, he just switched his doctor about 2 months ago though and now has not included me on his hipa form. Basically because the other doctor agreed with me.

OK... you would have less issues with neighbors as you are more spread out than I have become used to.

Its definitely pointing towards depression more and more. Particularly with the fact he changed doctors and is refusing to put you on the that form. What does he expect you to do if he becomes incapacitated and you can't know anything.

Personally I'm a strong believer in married cohabitating spouses having a right to that info as well as being first on the list of beificiaries...

Perhaps someone who knows more about your options than I know here will have some ideas. If he was a danger to himself or others you could have him involentarily committed to be checked out but that carries a lot of risk and can really open a can of worms. I'd consider that a last step to consider.

[Ash123]

Let me know how it goes. You can't dance around this or he'll not get the message.

Won't be easy at first, but things that are worthwhile rarely are.

[batybird]

Smoothy: well let me think how I could word this and not sound like he would flip out. But yes he would flip out, and honestly I'm not sure in our state what constitutes me being able to have him committed. I guess I could say that it would take more than one individual to have that happen. I guess I would also say that yes the hipa form is a huge issue, however I was just made aware of this about 2 days ago when I went to get a referral slip for our one daughter, when I requested a prescription refill, the secretary kindly told me he had omitted the hipa form. When I asked Laurie how often that occurs she said hardly ever, I questioned him and he said that our previous doctor( who both of us go to) was too close to me and would discuss to close of issues with me. Well hello yes I questioned his blood sugars and his tests trying to figure out if any of these could be the problems he has been expriencing. Well needless to say he didn't like the idea of our doctor agreeeing that there is a problem. I have tried discussing this with our friends, however he doesn't really let anyone get too close to him.

His parents are the only ones he really has respect and talks to things about. Now you ready for the kicker, they dispise me and our children. They have no time for family or anyone else for that matter, my husband sees them maybe twice a year and they only live 20 miles from us. They don't like to be bothered with friends or family. HMMMM now who do you suppose my husband takes after, he has always said he never wants to be like them, hence the whole problem. I know some of the problem is how his parents relate to people, but I have steered our children pretty clear of them. They have never taken an interest in our live, when the kids were born they never even bothered to show their faces at the hospital. Their other son is divorced and they have little or no contact with his children either. They love their other son devotedly, mainly because they are able to control everything in his life, his wife left because of his parents. Life is pretty interesting isn't it. Needless to say I get along with his ex-wife and all 4 of their children come and visit us on a regular basis, they are grown and range in age from 30 down to 18. His parents are definitely a factor I can not agrue that point. He calls his mother every Sunday at my suggestion, however I ask that he not talk to her in my presence since her questions always revolve around what I have or haven't done and what trouble our kids or their friends have gotten into. Which is absolutely upsurd since all four have never been in a bit of trouble. I know smoothy I should have read the writing on the wall but I loved my husband and unfortunately I still do, I miss the person I know is there somewhere again.
Thank you so much for your responses. They let me vent and think things through.

[Ash123]

This is sounding worse as you go.

I think perhaps your post was "the tip of the wedge"... hiding a lot more.

I think 27 years of intimacy may have been overstating it huh?

Well, this is not pretty and you really can't have anyone committed right now, but you perhaps oughta step up and have the conversation and be fair about it and see what he says.

Then, if things devolve and you all cannot see eye to eye or need a trial separation at some point, you will a lot saner if you did all you could now.

[smoothy]

You know perhaps try seeing a counceler alone... I know its not going to resolve his issues BUT it might help you deal with them and decide what is best for you. Or help you find a way to make him deal with his issues. Assuming you can afford to go it might help with your peace of mind even if it might not help the root problem.

I know you have to be dealing with a lot of stress and at our ages stress isn't going to do anything good to our bodies. It might help defuse that stress somewhat.

[kp2171]

So... "have a serious discussion" isn't the answer. She's tried that. He won't talk or listen. The details are clearer now, but my advice is still the same.

The books I mentioned aren't likely to make you feel better... I still haven't read chapmans Desperate Marriages, but I have read his book Covenant Marriage, angled toward those of Christain faith... he has common truths that someone who isn't Christian would agree with, but since it cites passages from the bible often, its probably distracting for those who don't follow the faith. If you read this book, or even the Five Love Languages you'll probably be upset because it will show on paper, in structured word, what you need and what you aren't getting. Like making that "laundry list" of "why do i stay... why should i go"...

Clearly you love your husband. Even if he wasn't the best communicator and even with the issues of the parents, I think you were able to hold things together for a long time because it was always enough, even if it was just enough.

You didn't state this was the perfect marriage... you stated others would call it that, likely from their outside view of a couple together for a long time, who still have dates together, and your sex life was decent from your own words. Even if you knew it wasn't "perfect", even if there were things lacking, it was enough for you in many ways. Clearly his stating it's a "perfect" marriage shows his definition is quite different than yours.

Some people come here and are clearly choosing to be victims in their relationships. I don't think you are. I think you simply made a commitment to your marriage and understood that not all things might perfectly mesh... but there was enough overlap for you to stay, even if you desired more.

Something in the last two years has changed and I don't know what that is... its why I wondered if he had a friend who passed, or who divorced. I wonder if its tied to ED as we've talked about. I wonder if he is struggling with the girls becoming women and not girls anymore.

27 years of intimacy wasn't necessarily overstated. It just had perhaps limited context. They had satisfying sex regularly for many years, and the connection there seemed to stave off the deficits elsewhere. Your OP indicates that the loss of cuddling and holding hands is a recent event. So she felt affection and closeness, even though it was through a limited "dialect"... as chapman states, outside of Physical Touch, there are also Acts of Service, Quality Time, Receiving Gifts, and Words of Affirmation. The better you are at showing love through all of these "dialects" the better chance you have of weathering problems, as then no one method of expressing commitment is propping up the entire marriage.

The frustrating thing here is as much as he hasn't been all you've wanted in many ways, it sounds like it would not take much for him to make it again "just enough" for you to stay. I don't think you've played the part of a "victim"... but you have done some heavy lifting. We choose to be willing to do some heavy lifting when we marry. That doesn't mean one person does all of it all the time. He's all but abandoned one of the few methods by which he showed you commitment.

[ordinaryguy]

something in the last two years has changed and i dont know what that is... its why i wondered if he had a friend who passed, or who divorced. i wonder if its tied to ED as weve talked about. i wonder if he is struggling with the girls becoming women and not girls anymore.

Wise words as usual, KP.

It does seem that the last two years have seen a major change for the worse, even if it wasn't entirely perfect before that. To me, it sounds like depression, specifically, dysthymia. Read up on it and see if it fits.

But whatever label or diagnosis might be applied to it, the bottom line is that he has to come to a recognition that there is a problem and that he needs help with it. If he continues to be in denial about it, you have to take steps to salvage your own mental, emotional and physical health. Your doing so may or may not produce the needed change in his perspective, so do it for yourself, not for him.

[Ash123]

When/what was the serious discussion that has occurred on all these issues?

[batybird]

Thanks Kp: I still feel in my heart we have had a very good marriage, no it wasn't perfect but I don't think there is one out there that is completely perfect. I loved this man enough and valued my vows that I took in church to stay and make the best marriage I felt possible. I never once in almost 26 years ever thought of throwing in the towel. Does that make me a victim, definitely not I feel it makes me the type of person who starts something and won't just give up for selfish or minimal problems. I hope that is one trait I have passed onto my children, the divorce rate in the country is too high for my liking.

I have ordered two of the books you recommended and they will be in shortly, I can't wait to start them. Hopefully they will give me a new insight into some of this mess.

Ash: As for where did the perfect marriage go, I know in my heart we have had a wonderful marriage, I didn't setttle for something less all those years ago. We have done many extremely nice things over the course of our life together. We have been through many trial and tribulations, and always have overcome them, we have gone on a family vacation every year and numerous cruises that our family enjoyed. We have gone on numerous vacations alone and yes they have been wonderful. So I don't want anyone to think it has been a terrible 28 plus year failure. I have a great job, a great home and wonderful children and a husband who I have always felt was enough. Yes maybe I chose to carry a lot of the work, but that is my personality, I still would have married him 28 years ago even knowing what I am going through now. I love him and truly believe we had and will hopefully still have what it takes to make it through until the end.

Please don't feel sorry for me, I have made this choice, I have to live with that. I know it sort of sounds hopeless, but somewhere inside this man is that one I still love endlessly. He just has to emerge and I have to figure out the best way to make that occur.

Thanks for all the feedback and letting me vent, you have no idea what that means to me.

[talaniman]

Your story is so sad, as you seem to be watching helplessly as things roll down hill. From what you have written, clearly he is suffering as well. I think you have both failed to make the adjustments necessary, for long term health, and happiness, and that lack of willingness to work together is driving a deep wedge between you. I'm not assigning blame, as this has been going on I suspect a whole lot longer than the two years, you keep bringing up, way longer, and for whatever reason you both have let it grow.

My suggestion is you let him wallow on his own pot, and get yours together without him. That doesn't mean divorce or a separation, just get your own life in balance, and make sure your happy.

Be aware he has slowly isolated himself in his own world, and needs to come out of it, and be active in his own happiness, and you cannot help him do it. Sorry, you have your own issues to tend to, or your useless to everyone else, so get busy with you, and not expect squat from him, and if he can't get his dead azz to moving for himself, you move for yourself, and be the example for your kids your proud of. Sorry, but as OG remarked, do for you right now, make sure your healthy. I think he will get up, and work on his issues, when he gets miserable enough.

Its evident his job change has more impact than he lets on and your blindness to his change does neither of you any good. He has a lot bottled up, but until he is ready to vent it, nothing you can do, but MAYBE be there for the fall out. He's a big boy, let him figure it out for himself.

My wife told me a few years ago when I was laid up for a few serious injuries, and was down in the mouth, to get over myself, and do something about myself, or shut the F**K up, and quite whining, she then left and went shopping. I eventually got it together I think, but the point is state your position, and go about your business. This was never about sex, so leave that on the shelf, and get your life in order.
Good Luck!!

[kp2171]

when/what was the serious discussion that has occurred on all these issues?

Let me clarify what I perhaps didn't say well.

This marriage will not survive without them having a serious discussion about where it is going... my point was she has been the one that has initiated any discussions, she is the one who has tried to address this issue, with his response being "with our marriage perfect, why would you change it", she is the one who is taking control and facing reality. It has all been her work.

"talk to him" isn't going to do it... at least not yet. You can try to have a serious discussion with a wall... that it didn't get worked out doesn't mean she has not tried. I believe she has tried to have serious discussions... he just isn't responsive or engaged in them.

What's next for her is to first deal with herself, not him. Baty needs to take some time to evaluate this relationship from a different angle, and whether that is with a counselor (which I think would be best) or/and with some books like I recommended. She's spent so much time lately focused on him... what is wrong with him, how can she change his behavior, how can she get her husband back... that's she is losing her own footing.

So I said "have a serious discussion" has been done and isn't working, and I kind of meant it... but perhaps not as it comes across.

I think her first step is to stop focusing on him, and to focus on herself... including what it means to be in a marriage. I say this because, while I have a good, strong marriage, I've had to work through my own bumps in the road along the way... and oftentimes the best resolutions required me to not think about what my partner is doing wrong, but what am I doing? What is being missed? If I assume my partner loves me, then where is the breakdown?

Yes... they will need to have some serious discussions... but at some point, and that point is now, baty needs some new tools, new angles, new approaches to tackle this issue.

Yes, it requires more work on her part, but it's the work I think she needs to do for herself, not for him. Talking with a counselor or reading some of the books I mention will start her on the path to understanding her marriage from a different perspective and understanding her own needs... something that needs to be now.

And ill add this. I read the book covenant marriage after my wife did. As she read she marked sections that were interesting to her... some were things she already new and believed, some were new approaches to a relationship. You'd better believe I read that book after she did and paid special attention to the parts she highlighted.

He might very well stay on the "everything is great" tack even if he sees a relationship book sitting on the bedside. I've been through one depression myself and its an ugly cycle. But he might also see a book like five love languages as an opportunity that needs to be taken. Its an fairly passive "escalation" of the situation where she is seeking help and he again gets the chance to join in or step back. If he refuses to even read a book, she has more proof that his grass is green enough as is.

So... didn't mean they didn't need to talk... meant that she needs to find her footing immediately. Counseling, books, venting at AMHD are all about that.

[l12]

Ok here goes, My husband and I have been married for almost 29 years, we have 2 grown children and 2 girls 16 still at home. We have always been considered what other people would call the perfect couple. WE try and go out at least once a week just the two of us, still dancing and dinners and sometimes movies. Our sex life has always been extremely important and satisfing to both of us, generally 2 -3 times a week. However in the last 2 years it has dwindled to less than once in maybe 5 weeks. My husband is a diabetic and has been for almost 49 years since he was 2. Ok yes this could be the major issue here however, he has tried the little blue pill and doesn't like any of the side effects. We have now gotten to the point that we hardly have any conversation at all anymore. There is absolutely no cuddling unless I iniate it and holding hands has gone almost completely out the window. Yes I understand we are 48 and 51 years old but the closeness we have experienced and affection all of our lives has completely gone by the way side. I am really to the point that I am tired of iniating it and pretty much have given up. He knows I am disappointed but seems to think that our 4 children and my girlfriends are enough to sustain my personal relationships. Thank god I have my girlfriends and we actively go out a couple times a week and then our 16 year olds are also my greatest joy in the entire world. I am to the point though that I am totally frustrated and infuriated with him and ready to leave as soon as our twins graduate. My husband has been my life for over 29 years and I have many male friends but never in all this time have I ever felt the need or want to have an affair or leave him.. Please help I am losisng a battle

I totally get what you are saying... Im 43 husband 53, been together 21 years. One 16 year old left of four boys... Had the same thing happen to me. Lots of stress, he lost his executive job 5 years ago and his parents last year... Sex was gone. Found out by accident that he was looking up porn to masturbate... leaving me out in the cold. I WAS DEEPLY hurt and confronted him... Went to counseling once... he said he would be there for me again... still struggling. But... things are getting better. You don't have to have intercourse (he has problems with ed too). But just experimenting with different ways and different places to be close is helping. Hang in there... Talk to him when you know he will listen... It's your right to be taken care of sexually. I actually wrote him an email that said... what's worse. Finding out that I have a lover or knowing that you pushed me to consider it! Not mean... just real and serious about having our needs met if we want to have a great relationship.

[shykitte]

I'm 42 and my husband's 43. We've been married for 8 years; and he's diabetic. Baty, what you write is what I've been going through almost since I first started seeing him. He's the love of my life, a wonderful person in every way except our private life. He started having ED soon after we were married - but I think he already had it in a small measure even before that. My sex drive is pretty high but he has no interest or desire at all. I'm also really affectionate and love to hug and cuddle and just be physically close, but he doesn't like any of that. Even so, I'd be happy if we had any sort of intimacy at least once a week, or at least a few times a month! I would be happy if we had Something, Anything! Even just holding and cuddling instead of the sex.. I could have lived with that!

During the first few years of our married life, we had sex once a month or once in two months, very rarely. But now its more than 4 years since we've had any kind of sex or physical closeness with each other. It's been so so hard, and I'm really at my wits end! I logged on tonight looking for some answer to my problem because I'm feeling really desperate and depressed about our lack of intimacy and affection (crying as I write this... ). I don't want to be an aggressive kind of wife, or make him feel bad. A few years back, I tried to talk to him but it did absolutely no good, and now I've given up trying to make him understand.

Like you baty, I deeply resented him because he totally ignored my need for him. In bed, he would just turn his back on me and sleep. For several years now, I don't go to bed till very late because its so frustrating when you're crazy with desire for this guy and he just goes to sleep in your face. I stay up all night - sometimes reading, watching TV,. or surfing porn sites. A few months back, I started chatting to men online, no cyber, just flirting a bit. But then I felt so guilty and bad about the whole thing that I stopped doing it, but I'm still tempted when I get really hot and bothered.

I really don't know what to do. I've seen a lot of responses here and on some other sites but I don't know if any of it will really make any difference. Though kp2171, talaniman and progunr had some great posts! However I am pretty sure people like my husband won't change; I have no faith in him making any attempt to fix this. He just avoids the whole issue altogether and wants both of us to go on as if there's nothing wrong. My whole life seems to be passing before my eyes, and even though I'm married, I feel barren and unfulfilled.

[Ash123]

I'm 42 and my husband's 43. We've been married for 8 years; and he's diabetic. Baty, what you write is what I've been going through almost since I first started seeing him. He's the love of my life, a wonderful person in every way except our private life. He started having ED soon after we were married - but I think he already had it in a small measure even before that. My sex drive is pretty high but he has no interest or desire at all. I'm also really affectionate and love to hug and cuddle and just be physically close, but he doesn't like any of that. Even so, I'd be happy if we had any sort of intimacy at least once a week, or at least a few times a month! I would be happy if we had Something, Anything! Even just holding and cuddling instead of the sex....., I could have lived with that!

During the first few years of our married life, we had sex once a month or once in two months, very rarely. But now its more than 4 years since we've had any kind of sex or physical closeness with each other. It's been so so hard, and I'm really at my wits end! I logged on tonight looking for some answer to my problem because I'm feeling really desperate and depressed about our lack of intimacy and affection (crying as i write this...). I don't want to be an aggressive kind of wife, or make him feel bad. A few years back, I tried to talk to him but it did absolutely no good, and now I've given up trying to make him understand.

Like you baty, I deeply resented him because he totally ignored my need for him. In bed, he would just turn his back on me and sleep. For several years now, I don't go to bed till very late because its so frustrating when you're crazy with desire for this guy and he just goes to sleep in your face. I stay up all night - sometimes reading, watching tv, .....or surfing porn sites. A few months back, I started chatting to men online, no cyber, just flirting a bit. But then I felt so guilty and bad about the whole thing that I stopped doing it, but I'm still tempted when I get really hot and bothered.

I really don't know what to do. I've seen a lot of responses here and on some other sites but I don't know if any of it will really make any difference. Though kp2171, talaniman and progunr had some great posts! However I am pretty sure people like my husband won't change; I have no faith in him making any attempt to fix this. He just avoids the whole issue altogether and wants both of us to go on as if there's nothing wrong. My whole life seems to be passing before my eyes, and even though I'm married, I feel barren and unfulfilled.

ugh....the more posts i read like this i begin to think that lack of intimacy is a silent epidemic.

And perhaps a sign of the general state of America: overweight, out of shape and lacking a sense of adventure and need to see the world... sorry if I am going off on a tangent but when a partner is in emotional prison over sex it is so tough. They have money and a roof over head and friendship so hard to explain to people.

There are many reasons (married young and changed expectations, overweight, depression, cheating, anger, diabetes, ED, hormonal change, lack of respect, fatique... )
But please do not feel like you cannot communicate at home about this- even if you have to get a counselor. Its your life... do they realize they may lose you? Or how much you are hurting?

This is serious and I hope things get better or you take action somehow.

[talaniman]

Granted, there is not a lot you can do to make a partner work with you on any level, but then you must decide for yourself, what actions you must take for yourself.

Education of the problem may lead to help for you, that and understanding, then maybe a plan of action can be made that helps. Life changes call for adjustments, but ideally partners must work together.

[batybird]

[QUOTE=shykitte]I'm 42 and my husband's 43. We've been married for 8 years; and he's diabetic. Baty, what you write is what I've been going through almost since I first started seeing him. He's the love of my life, a wonderful person in every way except our private life. He started having ED soon after we were married - but I think he already had it in a small measure even before that. My sex drive is pretty high but he has no interest or desire at all. I'm also really affectionate and love to hug and cuddle and just be physically close, but he doesn't like any of that. Even so, I'd be happy if we had any sort of intimacy at least once a week, or at least a few times a month! I would be happy if we had Something, Anything! Even just holding and cuddling instead of the sex.. I could have lived with that!

During the first few years of our married life, we had sex once a month or once in two months, very rarely. But now its more than 4 years since we've had any kind of sex or physical closeness with each other. It's been so so hard, and I'm really at my wits end! I logged on tonight looking for some answer to my problem because I'm feeling really desperate and depressed about our lack of intimacy and affection (crying as I write this... ). I don't want to be an aggressive kind of wife, or make him feel bad. A few years back, I tried to talk to him but it did absolutely no good, and now I've given up trying to make him understand.

Like you baty, I deeply resented him because he totally ignored my need for him. In bed, he would just turn his back on me and sleep. For several years now, I don't go to bed till very late because its so frustrating when you're crazy with desire for this guy and he just goes to sleep in your face. I stay up all night - sometimes reading, watching TV,. or surfing porn sites. A few months back, I started chatting to men online, no cyber, just flirting a bit. But then I felt so guilty and bad about the whole thing that I stopped doing it, but I'm still tempted when I get really hot and bothered.

I really don't know what to do. I've seen a lot of responses here and on some other sites but I don't know if any of it will really make any difference. Though kp2171, talaniman and progunr had some great posts! However I am pretty sure people like my husband won't change; I have no faith in him making any attempt to fix this. He just avoids the whole issue altogether and wants both of us to go on as if there's nothing wrong. My whole life seems to be passing before my eyes, and even though I'm married, I feel barren an
D unfulfilled./QUOTE]

Shykitte: I think you and I have a lot in common, I'm not sure if that's such a great thing. However it seems we are both dealing with it in about the same way, you don't say if you have children or not but that is one thing I have in my favor. I also have no faith in my husband making any attempt to fix it. I will say in the last week or so I have started going entirely about my own life. If I want to do something and he isn't interested I started making the decision to do it myself or involve one of my friends or kids. I'm not saying this is going to affect how he sees things, but I don't have to rely on him for my happiness.
For example last evening our son had a baseball game about an hour away, well I wanted to dinner out and go to his game, when I told him that I was going, and he was very able to stay at home and pout or do whatever it is he does, as I was going out the door he got his shoes on and went with me. I'm not saying that this is a turning point believe me, but I think that he understands that I will not sit around waiting for him to change. I have always gone and done things with my girlfriends, but him knowing that I would be going completely by myself, seemed to put a different light on it.

I've been out 3 nites this week, twice with friends and last evening with him and I'm not saying that it has given my a new perspective but I don't want him to think that I've given IN to his lifestyle. Does that make any sense, I hope so. I am a very outgoing person, and yes I work about 60 plus hours a week so I am away a lot. But I need something in my life to fulfill me. Whether it be making myself feel better with other friends or what.

Shy I do understand how you say youwhen you say you feel barren, we aren't the ones who are barren, I seriously wish I could atempt an affair, but the reprocussions and the effect on my children would be too much to bear. If this were on the other foot, I don't believe in my heart that he would be this sympathetic. I'm not saying he doesn't love me, just not the way we need to be loved shy. Please let me know what is going on with you. We definitely have a lot in common and your experiences could help me and mine yours. Good LUCK