[BABRAM]

It was not an attempt to make any excuse, but it demonstrates my point to some degree, that it would automatically be viewed that way.

It was not meant to lessen the wrong done by the people who purchased slaves, and slaves have been purchased by every race on our planet, throughout history.

It was simply stated to point out the fact that the white man, is not totally responsible for the slavery issue, yet they are most often the only race that gets blamed for this horrible time in History.

I guess perhaps that is why it is hardly ever addressed, since it is viewed as an "excuse", rather than as a statement of fact.

Those Blacks that sold their brethren out resided in Africa. The slaves then were shipped to America and purchased by Whites in America. Some actually came by force from battles or were detoured instead of going to Brazil. Later some Black slaves were then also owned by Native Americans, and freed Blacks. BTW there has also been White indentured slaves from European countries, as well. If the subject had been African Blacks sold out their brothers to African Whites in Africa, with an emphasis on exclusion of US history, then your statements would had been plausible.

[Credendovidis]

I would argue that .... it is decades of the left bludgeoning us with their culture and intolerance of "competing ideas and arguments". No?

Wrong. It is the US culture of growing intolerance in general that is causing this. Left or right has little to do with that. You can see this in almost each part of US life : from politics to religion : growing intolerance all the way...

:rolleyes:

[Skell]

Very good posts Bobby!! You're a good man and make a lot of sense. As is Steve. But in this instance I couldn't agree with you more.

[speechlesstx]

Nope! Let's back up here. You implied, albeit sarcastically, that we are going to have some sort of utopia upon us when Obama is elected.

I did? Um, I don't recall that. I ASKED sarcastically if an Obama win would lead to Utopia, but that's based on the well documented Messianic status conferred on the man by his supporters and himself, "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal," But I never implied any such thing sarcastically or otherwise. Some of us don't fall for all the hype surrounding His Lordship Obama, like Hudson Institute economist Irwin Stelzer who said, "Moses made the waters recede, but he had help."

I then gave a precise argument as to why using our own American history as a marker. Furthermore I said, to paraphrase myself, that although the advancement of society has occurred, albeit slowly, it is imperative that we maintain a recollection so that we don't have a repeat.

And I said there's a reason to remember and to remain vigilant if you'll recall.

I also made clear the actions of proclaimed Christians as opposed to those following the teaching of their Faith. Now the only revealing comment you've made is about having a bludgeoning complex of sorts over being called a racist. I do believe you. It's been overly apparent in this little discussion. However it's not getting you any debate points here, because I never accused you of being a racist. I said you were a law abiding good citizen.

I noticed that my friend, and I appreciate that.

Let's look at this another way. You would disregard six million Jews and millions more righteous Gentiles that died seventy years ago because you never witnessed the Holocaust. What a load of crap.

I meant no offense, Bobby, but I said nothing about disregarding the Holocaust or racism, my record on these issues speaks for itself. I am saying however, there is a tremendous difference between the murder of six million Jews and a black city council member taking offense at a white mayor properly using the term "black hole." The first matters - the second is politically correct BS that distracts from things that really DO matter with regard to racism. I was speaking from my experience in regard to racism period and the point is this - if we have to tiptoe around blacks there will be no racial harmony. Come on people, let's talk about things that matter, but the more you inject racism unnecessarily the more damage you do to your cause.

Listen! I personally had nothing to do with the African-American atrocities at any point in our American history, but I sure wouldn't want it to happen to them again or any person of any color, including Whites.

We're in complete agreement on this, Bobby.

Perhaps "Steve" there are some differences between our cultural perspectives, what our parents emphasized, and differences between our Faith's views on humanity (not to exclude anyone else respectively Agnostic, Atheist, etc... ), to acknowledge that we may never see eye to eye in our lifetime. I'm OK with that. I prefer teaching the next generation to learn from others mistakes, including my own. Like I said before, it's not just a Black and White issue. America is very diverse.

Sure there are cultural differences with us and I don't expect people to ever see eye to eye on everything. But, we CAN get along and part of that begins by accepting that millions of Americans like myself, don't get why the races should be at odds because we grew up together. We don't get why we should be bludgeoned about racism because we're not racist and we don't see how that bludgeoning is accomplishing the desired result (or at least the stated goal).

[speechlesstx]

Wrong. It is the US culture of growing intolerance in general that is causing this. Left or right has little to do with that. You can see this in almost each part of US life : from politics to religion : growing intolerance all the way ...

Cred, could you be more specific?