[tanda82000]

Hi, hopefully someday will be able to help me. I hired an "electrician" though not certified or licenced, he said (and sounded) like he knew his stuff... That was last August. SInce then, he has spent probably a total of 20 to 30 hours working on my house. His job, was to remove all the metal clad wiring, and replace it with n-m cable. Also he was supposed to replace all the outlet boxes and receptacles. He did some work, but since I haven't heard from him in over 3 months, I just let it go. I paid him 2000, out of the 3000 that he said the job would cost. As of now, I have had to rip out half of the work that he did, because it isn't passing code. I have learned quite a bit about wiring a house, because I am fixing all his mistakes. It started small, but now I am getting to the point where I will have to rip down walls to take the boxes out that he put in that were too small. My question is, do I have a case in small claims court against him? I have no proof of what he did and what I did, except for receipts for all the material I have bought, and dates on the wire. I DO have proof that I gave him $2000. I need help, because money is tight, and its looking like I might need a professional to at least advise me on some of the harder work (like is it OK to wire the living room lights to a bedroom circuit?) I don't even want to get all 2k back, I know he spent time and money on some of the job, so I will probably try to get 1200. Please, any advice is appreciated. Thanks
David

[tkrussell]

As I go through this, and think about how the job began and transpired, I have a scenario in mind that may be close to the circumstances, correct me if I am off base:

You applied for a local electrical homeowner's permit that allows for a homeowner of a single family home to do Their OWN electrical work.

Despite the fact that you were the permittee to do the work, you really had intended to have an electrician actually do the work. If this is the case then a false permit was applied for.

Next, you hire a person that falsely stated or implied that he had the proper license.

An inspector arrives to inspect "your " electrical work and fails the installation for certain reasons.

The hired "electrician" is not willing or not given the chance to correct the installation, so you begin to make the repairs. Here is where you did not document what the imposter installed .

Anyone can sue in Small Claims court for anything they chose. Along with whatever receipts you have, you should take photos of the installation he did that needed to be changed. And photos of the work as it should be.

But before you attempt to get in front of a judge , be sure you are in compliance with the law, so as not to incriminate yourself.

Did a city inspector check this work? Can a statement of the failed work be furnished by the inspector? Did you apply for a home owners permit with intentions of doing the work yourself?

A criminal case can be filed against the person that did electrical work without proper licensing and permitting. Presenting himself under false pretenses can add to the penalty.

If the scenario as I presented is true, then I see a difficult case for you , not so much in trying to get the money you gave the electrician back, but how you may have caused yourself to be in a bit of trouble.

That does not mean you are not entitled to get your money back, just need to be careful as to what you may have done wrong so you don't end up in the hot seat.

If you can present your case in small claims with out incriminating yourself, if the work the electrician did do is improper, then all the money should be sued for, along with the added costs to correct the problems, including any of the demo and repair to the walls necessary to repair his work, and court costs.

Get back with the actual details how this whole project transpired so someone like myself does not need to guess to be able to help you get through this case.

[Fr_Chuck]

Do you have a case, yes, do you have very good evidence no.

You will need of course a statement from the building inspector that it did not pass code, that will be your proff that it was not done right. What you lack is any written contract, bill or estimate that this person did the work.

But your check will be proof you paid him for something, ( new piano perhaps)
Just giving an example of what he may say the check was for in court.
Remember just because you are suppose to tell the truth, does notmean he will. A witness who say him working on the house would be nice.

But you file your claim, go to court and tell your story and then you may win a judgement.

Of course then you have to make him pay you, hopefully he has the money to do so, if not he can merely refuse to pay, you would have to go back to court and get a judgement, then try and find his money and attach it.

[tanda82000]

Thanks for the quick replys...
Here is how the whole thing went down...
Back in August, I called the "electrician" (Steve) he came over, and told me that I didn't need a permit or an inspection, (that the homeowner was allowed to do any work his own house, because I live in a small town, not a city.) Then for about 2-3 months he did work here and there, probably totaling 30 hrs max. At the same time, he let me borrow a few tools and a ladder, so in exchange I didn't put up a fuss about the work not getting done in a timley manner. All the while, I had to live off extension cords. (cant sue for that) After about 3 more months of not hearing from him, or hearing excuse after excuse (daughter was sick, he was sick, vacation, etc... ) I told him that I would be finishing the work, and I was prepared to eat the $2000 that I gave him, and finish myself. Then, as I was working, I noticed several things wrong, mostly small things, like the basement lights weren't hooked to a switch, or there wasn't a seprate circuit for laundry. At that point, I decided to have an inspector come and tell me what else was wrong, so that I could fix that too. Then the inspector told me everything that was wrong There were some serious things that needed to be fixed, like both bathroom circuits were hooked together, and needed to be separated. And he put the wrong size outlet boxes in the kitchen (too small for 12-2). THAT is the point that I decided I need to get some money back. Steve never lied to me saying that he was certified or licenced, but he did tell me no permit or inspection was nessassary. I have a written estimate with all the work he should have done, but no way to really prove what he did and didn't do, except for dates on the wires, and my fiancé as a witness. Is any of this my fault? If there is any more information that I can give to make this more clear, I will. Again, thank you both for your quick and professional advice.

[ScottGem]

A few things bothers me here. Was Steve's the only estimate you got? Did you check Steve's references?

As others indicated, you might have a case. If you have a written estimate and the inspector's report, that should be sufficient.

[Fr_Chuck]

He is right in the fact that for just some minor changes one does not have to get a permit or an inspection.

And a lot of "handymen" do wonderful jobs and are not licenced,

But from what you said, he is beyond that, some of these things are so simple anyone that has ever done them at all should know what to do

[tkrussell]

Did the inspector confirm that no permit, either contractor or homeowner, was required? If not , why is there an inspector? Knowing the state would help, usually the statues can be found on the web.

In all of New England and New York State, adding any new wiring, requires a permit, by someone, and most allow for homeowners to do their own work, and a permit is always required. Inspectors can be more critical of homeowners work , as their knowledge is in question. As worse is to have an electrician, even thou licensed, do the work. Some licenses must work under others.

Seems that if you had violated any permit law, the inspector would be letting you know that, and that would be the only law I can see that you would have violated. I am fuzzy on the whole inspector issue, and his take on the job.

File a claim against the person that has your money. Be prepared with as much detail and evidence you can. If there is any of his work still existing, take pictures before any more changes are done.

You may start with suing for money that you did not receive the contracted services because the job was not completed for the amount of upfront money.

Do not ever give up front money again. If the worker needs materials, you go with him and pay for what is needed. Now it belongs to you to do with as you please. Store it all at your home and keep possession of the material, letting the worker use it as the job is done. Only pay for labor after work has been done.

I believe that before suing for work not code compliant, you need to know exactly what is not done correctly, why, how should it be, and have the code sections stating what code is for that installation. Otherwise the judge will ask you how do you know if you are not trained. The installer may , since he thinks he knows, have a bit more knowledge than you, and may come out looking better than you.

Any document from the inspector will help greatly with this. Small towns may not have any electrical ordinance, then the state laws will supercede.

I mentioned that installing electrical wiring without license can be a criminal offence, and got no response on that, probably because he is friend. Thou it does not happen often, doing improper work now that causes injury or death later, has been sentenced as manslaughter. Inspectors and courts have many more cases than they can handle so may not be on their radar, but it has happened.

So, there is a possibility, that if you do get your day in court, Steve may have some ansewering to do on the installing without a license, even if you do not push the subject.

Decide how you would like to present your case to work to your favor, collect as much documents as possible, take tons of before and after pictures, check with the town and state on licenses and permits, and file a claim.

If the situation gets more sticky than this, then a consult with an attorney may be in order.

Keep us informed with how things work out.