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cswassmann · Jul 12, 2008, 09:31 AM

Iam a manager who uncocovered diversion within my company. I run a salon and spa witch is a part of a franchise with individual owners. The salon caries the name of aveda. Because of that products have to be sold a certain way or it is in violation of the franchise. When uncovered the violation the franchise bieng aveda asked me to turn over the paper trail of proof. So I did because ethically it was the right thing to do. Now I quite this job because I could not be apart of that any longer. Aveda is now disolving there parntership with the owner for violation of there contract. Because I profided the documintaion can the owner go after me

N0help4u · Jul 12, 2008, 09:32 AM

Legally no because you did the right thing.

progunr · Jul 12, 2008, 09:38 AM

What would they go after you for?

excon · Jul 12, 2008, 09:48 AM

Hello cs:

Somebody apparently lost a lot of money because of YOU. We've heard only what YOU have to say about it. They may very well have a different story - probably do.

Can they go after you?? Absolutely! Will they win? I don't know.

excon

N0help4u · Jul 12, 2008, 09:51 AM

Oh, So what he is saying is not that he uncovered a 'crime' within the company and reported it?

I took it that why because he said Iam a manager who uncocovered diversion within my company

excon · Jul 12, 2008, 09:59 AM

Hello N0:

That's what he's saying, all right. But, he asked whether the owner can sue him. The answer is, he can.

If the OP's version of events proves to be true, he won't lose a thing except a lot of legal fees. That's why most people who are confronted with situations like this, simply quit and don't involve themselves in corporate matters. When one does involve oneself, one takes certain risks. He's asking about one of those risks NOW.

excon

cswassmann · Jul 12, 2008, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello N0:

That's what he's saying, alright. But, he asked whether the owner can sue him. The answer is, he can.

If the OP's version of events proves to be true, he won't lose a thing except a lot of legal fees. That's why most people who are confronted with situations like this, simply quit and don't involve themselves in corporate matters. When one does involve oneself, one takes certain risks. He's asking about one of those risks NOW.

excon

What I am asking is what can they go after I would think it would be money and that I don't have allott of. The other company involved already spotted the diversion they just didn't know on what scale. So I confidialy turned over all the info so that they had more of a leg to stand on legally.

excon · Jul 12, 2008, 01:27 PM

Hello again, cs:

What you have doesn't bear any relationship to what they could sue you for. They could win a large judgment against you, take whatever you've got now, and sit back for the next 20 years taking everything you'll ever have.

If you have NOTHING, then I doubt that you need to worry about a lawsuit, unless, of course, you really pissed them off. If you have SOMETHING, like a house, or a savings account, they might try to get it. They might try to just bankrupt you with legal fees.

I don't know. We're talking about possibilities here.

excon

excon · Jul 12, 2008, 01:39 PM

Hello again:

If it looks like I think OTHER stuff is going on, you're right. Most managers, who notice an impropriety, bring it up to their immediate supervisor. YOUR immediate supervisor, the person who HIRED you, and the person who PAID your wages, was apparently the owner.

Not only were you NOT loyal to him, you snitched on him and put him out of business.

I don't know why you would do that. You talk about ethics, but I don't think you quite understand what ethics are. I don't think it's ethical to do what you did. I also don't think you did this because of "ethics". I think you're retaliating on them for something.

That my story, and I'm sticking with it.

excon

cswassmann · Jul 12, 2008, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again:

If it looks like I think OTHER stuff is going on, you're right. Most managers, who notice an impropriety, bring it up to their immediate supervisor. YOUR immediate supervisor, the person who HIRED you, and the person who PAID your wages, was apparently the owner.

Not only were you NOT loyal to him, you snitched on him and put him out of business.

I don't know why you would do that. You talk about ethics, but I don't think you quite understand what ethics are. I don't think it's ethical to do what you did. I also don't think you did this because of "ethics". I think you're retaliating on them for something.

That my story, and I'm sticking with it.

excon

Thanks for the feedback. It's a liitle more complicated since I work for both companys.

thisnthatshoppe · Jul 12, 2008, 11:27 PM

If you are worried, consult a lawyer (a lot offer free initial consultations). However, legally, the owner does not have a leg to stand on if they were to try and go after you. You did the ethical thing-- the right thing. You would and should be commended for that.

JudyKayTee · Jul 13, 2008, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by thisnthatshoppe

If you are worried, consult a lawyer (a lot offer free initial consultations). However, legally, the owner does not have a leg to stand on if they were to try and go after you. You did the ethical thing-- the right thing. You would and should be commended for that.

What is your basis for your statement that the employer doesn't have a leg to stand on?

Unless OP lets us know what paperwork was turned over to Aveda I see a possibility that he unethically turned over documents which belonged to the salon/spa owner and should not have been released. This is a tricky legal minefield - "whistle blowers" find THEMSELVES arrested all the time when they release corporate documents to third parties.

If Aveda wanted to pursue this they should have taken the OP's info, obtained legal counsel, obtained documentation by legal means and proceeded.

If for no other consideration - OP is suddenly without a job reference and I can't imagine anyone being in a big hurry to hire someone who has resorted to vigilante methods.

Please keep in mind that I am not answering this from a MORAL standpoint - this is a legal question and I am answering from that perspective.

twinkiedooter · Jul 13, 2008, 09:03 AM

Judy is correct. Anytime an employee takes privileged company information and gives it to a third party that is not legally right. I know it is morally right, but legally this is incorrect what you did. You could have informed the parent company of the impropriety of the other company, but to give them any paperwork is wrong. And yes, the company can come after you for essentially "stealing" their paperwork and giving it to a third party. They can come after you criminally, not civilly.

excon · Jul 13, 2008, 09:51 AM

Hello again:

Contrary to my friends, I have no qualms at all about my position. He has no moral nor legal obligation to snitch on his boss. In fact, I think the opposite is true.

He calls it diversion, which is stealing in plain English, but he didn't call the cops. Then he said that products are supposed to be sold a certain way, but he's not a lawyer.

By doing what he did, his boss is out of business, rightfully or wrongfully. We only have ONE side of the story. Plus, the OP is out of a job and he opened himself up to a lawsuit.

Nope. It doesn't look like the ethical, moral, legal or smart thing to do at all.

excon

cswassmann · Jul 13, 2008, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

Judy is correct. Anytime an employee takes privileged company information and gives it to a third party that is not legally right. I know it is morally right, but legally this is incorrect what you did. You could have informed the parent company of the impropriety of the other company, but to give them any paperwork is wrong. And yes, the company can come after you for essentially "stealing" their paperwork and giving it to a third party. They can come after you criminally, not civilly.

The other company has it in there contract that they have all sccess to all files. I never tokk the paerwork out of the buissness I handed them the file when they asked for it since they have the right. It is a 50percent partnership so I did not feel it was ethically right right to lie to the other partner when they asked. Because I did not know what was going on until they stared asking me questions and pointed out to me what was going on. So it is now in the hands of the other partner I just told the truth that's all. I felt so uncomfortable after it was made clear to me what was going on that I a few days later quit because I did not want to be in the middle of it. Plus I did not want to be put in a position to lie to one side over the other. So how could I possibly charged criminaly? I nevr removed paperwork from the building.

Fr_Chuck · Jul 13, 2008, 10:58 AM

Yes, the person did not go to the company and inform them of the problems, and geve them a chance to correct it, they also may or may not know all the facts of what was happening.

And they should have never given the files but should have merely had the company request that info from the other company.
So yes I see where there can be legal problems if the company wants to follow up with the theft of company documents

cswassmann · Jul 13, 2008, 11:01 AM

The other company has it in there contract that they have all sccess to all files. I never tokk the paerwork out of the buissness I handed them the file when they asked for it since they have the right. It is a 50percent partnership so I did not feel it was ethically right right to lie to the other partner when they asked. Because I did not know what was going on until they stared asking me questions and pointed out to me what was going on. So it is now in the hands of the other partner I just told the truth that's all. I felt so uncomfortable after it was made clear to me what was going on that I a few days later quit because I did not want to be in the middle of it. Plus I did not want to be put in a position to lie to one side over the other. So how could I possibly charged criminaly? I nevr removed paperwork from the building.

JudyKayTee · Jul 13, 2008, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by cswassmann

The other company has it in there contract that they have all sccess to all files. I never tokk the paerwork out of the buissness i handed them the file when they asked for it since they have the right. It is a 50percent partnership so i did not feel it was ethically right right to lie to the other partner when they asked. Because i did not know what was going on untill they stared asking me questions and pointed out to me what was going on. So it is now in the hands of the other partner i just told the truth thats all. I felt so uncomfortable after it was made clear to me what was going on that i a few days later quit because i did not want to be in the middle of it. Plus i did not want to be put in a position to lie to one side over the other. So how could i possibly charged criminaly? I nevr removed paperwork from the building.

You handed the paperwork over to a third party - you don't have to smuggle it out under your overcoat.