[oespanhol1]

What's the take on pro se or representing oneself in court?. I have a well-informed, intelligent friend who wants to try it out and firmly believes that the judge may even be more lenient and simpathetic if the judge believes you are doing your best... If one uses a legal document provider, is it not like really going pro se as you will not be accompanied in court by a lawyer?. What are the rules concerning legal document preparers anyway?. I understand that they are licensed in California, Arizona, and only a few more states... Thanks for any input you can give!

[Fr_Chuck]

In every state I know of, you can not have an attorney in small claims court. If you are in any other court and the other side has an attorney, you need an attorney.

It is always a good idea to have an attorney and no the judge could care less, if you don' meet the requirements of his court, he will just let you lose. Some courts are so specific, * not in small claims* that motions have to be in the correct "font size" according to the courts rules unless you are an inmate in jail.
Against an attorney you will have them making motions you don't understand and the judge does not explain it to you, he will let you merely lose.

Small claims court has more freedom but in all I know of, you are not allowed an attorney from either side,

[George_1950]

What's the take on pro se or representing oneself in court?.........I have a well-informed, intelligent friend who wants to try it out and firmly believes that the judge may even be more lenient and simpathetic if the judge believes you are doing your best......Thanks for any input you can give!

Your friend should attend court several times and see what procedures are used and how the judge conducts a trial. Write down the name of a case when it is called; several days later, when the file is returned to the clerk, go ask to see the file and read the pleadings to see how the issues were alleged in the complaint. Ask the clerk for any published rules of court that you should be aware of before going to trial.

[oespanhol1]

In every state I know of, you can not have an attorney in small claims court. If you are in any other court and the other side has an attorney, you need an attorney.

It is always a good idea to have an attorney and no the judge could care less, if you don' meet the requirements of his court, he will just let you lose. Some courts are so specific, * not in small claims* that motions have to be in the correct "font size" according to the courts rules unless you are an inmate in jail.
Against an attorney you will have them making motions you don't understand and the judge does not explain it to you, he will let you merely lose.

Small claims court has more freedom but in all I know of, you are not allowed an attorney from either side,

Good useful advice!. Thanks again!

[oespanhol1]

Your friend should attend court several times and see what procedures are used and how the judge conducts a trial. Write down the name of a case when it is called; several days later, when the file is returned to the clerk, go ask to see the file and read the pleadings to see how the issues were alleged in the complaint. Ask the clerk for any published rules of court that you should be aware of before going to trial.

Will inform my friend likewise!. I figured there was a lot of homework here!. Thanks!

[oespanhol1]

Your friend should attend court several times and see what procedures are used and how the judge conducts a trial. Write down the name of a case when it is called; several days later, when the file is returned to the clerk, go ask to see the file and read the pleadings to see how the issues were alleged in the complaint. Ask the clerk for any published rules of court that you should be aware of before going to trial.

By the way in the same context, what is the story about these legal document preparers?. Someone has called them the H&R Block guys of legal services!. There was an article about them in the news recently concerning bankruptcy and that the bankruptcy court here was inundated with numerous improperly prepared petitions by persons who ,I guess, are going it pro se ,so the court had to appoint someone to help them out!. One opened up near me near me here in New York city but I found out they are owned by a payday lender now and I do not approve of that business and in fact payday lending is prohibited by law in New York... Thanks in advance for any info!

[George_1950]

By the way in the same context, what is the story about these legal document preparers?...........Someone has called them the H&R Block guys of legal services!.........There was an article about them in the news recently concerning bankruptcy and that the bankruptcy court here was inundated with numerous improperly prepared petitions by persons who ,I guess, are going it pro se ,so the court had to appoint someone to help them out!...Thanks in advance for any info!

Probably an injustice to H&R Block! Tax forms are not as complicated as fact patterns in a bankruptcy. My view is that if you need help with the forms, get an attorney.

[oespanhol1]

Probably an injustice to H&R Block! Tax forms are not as complicated as fact patterns in a bankruptcy. My view is that if you need help with the forms, get an attorney.

I agree it is probably an injustice to H&R Block as I have seen them do a good enough service for their clients at a reasonable rate and I say that as one who is an accountant!. Furthermore, H&R are the ones who keep the CPA's with their exorbitant fees from monopolizing the tax preparation field as H&R has fought and testified in Congress over this!. The CPA organizations and firms here in New York have hounded the small tax practitioners by convincing the city to pass regulations under the Consumer Affairs Department requiring non-CPA's to post signs that they are not accountants and can not represent clients with the IRS etc.. . This, I believe , is a real shame!. Thanks again!

[George_1950]

[QUOTE=oespanhol1] The CPA organizations and firms here in New York have hounded the small tax practitioners by convincing the city to pass regulations under the Consumer Affairs Department requiring non-CPA's to post signs that they are not accountants and can not represent clients with the IRS etc.. . This, I believe , is a real shame!. /QUOTE]
You are welcome. Where would we be without all the government looking out for us? How could we manage?

[JudyKayTee]

In every state I know of, you can not have an attorney in small claims court. If you are in any other court and the other side has an attorney, you need an attorney.

It is always a good idea to have an attorney and no the judge could care less, if you don' meet the requirements of his court, he will just let you lose. Some courts are so specific, * not in small claims* that motions have to be in the correct "font size" according to the courts rules unless you are an inmate in jail.
Against an attorney you will have them making motions you don't understand and the judge does not explain it to you, he will let you merely lose.

Small claims court has more freedom but in all I know of, you are not allowed an attorney from either side,

And some Courts and Judges are rather intolerant of people who don't retain an Attorney, show up with info off the Internet. They have no time and patience for the Plaintiff (or Defendant) sort of stumbling around in the dark when there's a busy Court schedule.

If it were easy and uncomplicated the Attorneys would be out of business.

[Fr_Chuck]

A few things, not sure of all legal prep companies, we call them para legal firms here. And they are not legal in all states, some states will require there be an attorney working for them, but normally they get by this by hiring a first year attorney for 30,000 a year to rubber stamp things.

But I used to fill out bankrutpcy filings for people, this was before all the changes the last few years, it is 100's of pages of repeating info, but each line had to be done exactly right or it can make someone liable to pay someone, or the entire thing thrown out, most bankruptcy courts I know of would just dismiss a case if the paperwork not done right, they don't supply anyone to help someone with the filing.

But Judy is very correct, Iknow here in Atlanta, having worked in the courts the judges I know are not tolernant at all of people without an attorney, if a filing is wrong it is not allowed and they will let the person lose they really don't care, remember in court, it honestly is not who is right and who is wrong, it is who can prove something using the rules of evidence.

[JudyKayTee]

A few things, not sure of all legal prep companies, we call them para legal firms here. and they are not legal in all states, some states will require there be an attorney working for them, but normally they get by this by hiring a first year attorney for 30,000 a year to rubber stamp things.

But I used to fill out bankrutpcy filings for people, this was before all the changes the last few years, it is 100's of pages of repeating info, but each line had to be done exactly right or it can make someone liable to pay someone, or the entire thing thrown out, most bankruptcy courts I know of would just dismiss a case if the paperwork not done right, they don't supply anyone to help someone with the filing.

But Judy is very correct, Iknow here in Atlanta, having worked in the courts the judges I know are not tolernant at all of people without an attorney, if a filing is wrong it is not allowed and they will let the person lose they really don't care, remember in court, it honestly is not who is right and who is wrong, it is who can prove something using the rules of evidence.

And I have been in favor of licensing Paralegals (at least in NYS) for a number of years - where I am the "paralegal" title is sometimes in lieu of a raise. Doesn't mean the person has any type of training but he/she gets a new title. I have also seen some who are terrifically competent and knowledgeable.

They are somehow licensed and/or regulated in Canada and can perform a number of paraprofessional services. Don't know about other States.

NYS does offer and recognize a paralegal degree but that varies from school to school.

I also see more and more law school students (and a couple of graduates) working as paralegals because the employment picture is so bleak.

[Fr_Chuck]

I am closing this thread, the original poster is reporting Judy, and reporting me for our answers even after posting an agreement to them.
I am not sure what their issue is, but obviously they are not interested in hearing the issues of the case.