[N0help4u]

Insinuates making a petition to God in their name.

I looked up on the search engine receiving a prophet meaning to pray in the name of the prophet and all I got were Islam sites.

[arcura]

NOHelp4u.
Jesus teaches us that the saints and prophets are not dead. The Apostle's Creed tell us of the communion of saints. That is mortal saints (Christians) communication with those who have passed over to the other heavenly life.
Here are some bible passages to help you with that.
Mk 12:26-27... "not God of the dead, but of the living."
Jn 15:1-8... vine and its branches.
1 Cor 12:25-27; Rom 12:4-5... body of Christ.
Eph 6:18; Rom 15:30; Col 4:3; 1 Thess 1:11... intercessory prayer.
Jos 5:14; Dan 8:17; Tob 12:16... veneration of angels united with God (Mt 18:10).
1 Cor 13:12; 1 John 3:2... saints also united with God.
Lk 20-34-38... those who died are like angels.
2 Mac 15:11-16... deceased Onias and Jeremiah interceded for Jews.
Rev 8:3-4; Jer 15:1... saints' intercession.

[N0help4u]

Then I can pray through any Christian that died because saints are any of God's children.

[arcura]

NOHelp4u,
There are several sources of good, accurate Church history. Her is one of them.
History of the Roman Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Note that in that it shows that In the year 110 A.D.: Ignatius of Antioch first recorded use of the term Catholic Church in a letter to the Church at Smyrna.
Prior to that it was called by its biblical name "The Church" or as Jesus called it "My Church".
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[sndbay]

That is true. But then why would some say that you must obey Scripture but you need not obey the Church? If the Church is Christ then we must obey the Church. And Scripture is clear, the Church is Christ:

The scripture is clear in saying the church is those who believe in Christ, and the foundation of the church is built on the Rock which is Christ.
Hebrew 3:1-6 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses [was faithful] in all his house. For this [man] was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. For every house is builded by some [man]; but he that built all things [is] God. And Moses verily [was] faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Note the ( If ) we hold fast

1 Corinthains 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Colossians 1 24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:

Let's read further on this because I trust it will give more awareness to Truth as to what Paul was actually saying: KJV Colossians 1:23-25 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: 25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Paul will do all that is asked of him to assure that Christ and all Christ gave us, is apart of the church that Paul is teaching, according to God's command to Paul. The fulfillment of the Word of God.

That is why Scripture says:

Hebrews 13 17 Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.

KJV Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.

This becomes the choice of who you or I obey, and submit to.

Proverbs 6:21-23 Bind them continually upon thine heart, [and] tie them about thy neck. 22 When thou goest, it shall lead thee; when thou sleepest, it shall keep thee; and [when] thou awakest, it shall talk with thee.23 For the commandment [is] a lamp; and the law [is] light; and reproofs of instruction [are] the way of life:

Do you mean an organization? Yes. Jesus made it so. The Church is the Body of Christ on earth but it is also the Kingdom of God on earth. With authority and power over our souls.

In 1 Corinthians 3, Apostle Paul's teachings are concerning the foundation of the church. And how that foundation was set in Christ Jesus and not man. Verse 17 of chapter 3 goes on to say if any man defile the Temple of God, he shall God destroy; for the Temple of God is holy. Verse 18 of chapter 3 states let no man deceive himself by thinking that
What seems to be wise in the world or lets say if you are street smart, let him be a fool. Because you fail to be wise in God's love. Verse 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. Verse 21 So let no man glory in men. 22 For all things present and things to come are yours, and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.( Ezekiel 18:4 All souls belong to God )
1 Corinthains 4:1 Let all men minster of Christ, and teach the mysteries of God.

Why do you reduce Christ to Scripture? Where does Scripture reduce Christ to Scripture?

Jesus is the Word of God but the Word of God is carried in our hearts, in our actions, our prayers, our ceremonies, our doctrines, in short in our Traditions. Including the Tradition of Scripture. But not in Scripture alone.

Understand that to me, this was you putting a stumbling stone before me. Your authority over what I trust as Christ in my heart. His Word, His Body, All that God commanded.. And I would never reduce Christ.

Proverbs 24:3-4 (KJV):Through wisdom is an house builded; and by understanding it is established: And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.

Exodus 8: 10 And he said, To morrow. And he said, Be it according to thy word: that thou mayest know that there is none like unto the LORD our God.

2 Timothy 2:15: "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

1 Timothy 4: 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


Hosea 4:6a: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."

[N0help4u]

NOHelp4u,
That is not what I meant.
I was speaking of Jesus Christ's teachings all of which are not in the bible as the bible its self tells us.
The apostles Jesus taught by word and deed taught others those things and they were recorded in letters and documents which were not included in the bible. They are often referred to as writings of The Church Fathers or oral tradition.
Discussions about who taught where, what they taught, about baptism, about Mary, about Easter, about when Jesus was born and much more including the Apostles' Creed are in those documents.
A list of those documents can be found at this site
Early Church Fathers

Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

I don't understand the link. Where does it prove that Peter was the first Pope and
Where does it show that he passed *it* on down through the Catholic Church?
Where does it prove that Catholics are the ONE and only true church?

Any Proof I have ever seen doesn't seem to prove any more to me than John Smith's proof that he was handed down tablets and they were of God.

[RickJ]

Where does it prove that Catholics are the ONE and only true church?

This is not the way I like to use the terms.

There is but one Church... period. All believers are members, however the doctrine and practices of the Catholic and Orthodox Church best represent historical Christianity.

[N0help4u]

Based on some evidence you arrived at the conclusion that the various Churches are Christ. But the Bible says that Christ is not divided. Christ is one. And He made one Church which taught one faith:

Ephesians 4 4 One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling.

Ephesians 4 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Romans 12 5 So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

So, based on that evidence I searched for the one Church which is considered the most ancient. Since Christ only made one Church, that must be the one which Christ made.

That is why I believe in the Catholic Church.

Sincerely,

De Maria

I take it with statements (throughout this post and others) like the one I highlighted that De Maria believes the Catholics believe THEY are the ONE and ONLY true church.

[arcura]

NOhelp4u
Scripture tells us that Jesus established The Church with Peter as its first leader.
The book of acts shows us the how apostolic succession took place and that now continues to today.
IF you had read all of the documents listed on that link that I provided you would have see historic evidence of The Church and its people and activities that took place in the early centuries.
That Peter was the first leader who served in Rome and who followed him and much more.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[N0help4u]

I couldn't understand the documents.

I couldn't even find where it shows where, when and how it was passed on from Peter.

[RickJ]

Here is a links page that gives some good historical/biblical info on Apostolic Succession/Church/Papacy:

Catholic Answers: Library: Church & Papacy

[N0help4u]

I understand that Peter was the rock of THE Church
I am not seeing where THE Church IS Catholic and directly linked to Peter.

[RickJ]

"catholic" is just a word - initially used as an adjective, not a noun as it is mostly used now.

The first known use of the term "the catholic church" was about 110 A.D.; in a letter from an early Christian leader, Ignatius, to the [Church of the] Smyrnaeans:

"...even as where Jesus may be, there is the katholike ekklesia"... katholike ekklesia is translated "universal church" or "the catholic church" or "the one and only church".

For the full text of the letter, click here. All Christians can enjoy reading what Christian leaders of the generation following the Apostles wrote.

By the beginning of the 4th century, the descriptive "catholic" became the popular name of the Church of the Christians: The Catholic Church.

... which is what Christ's Church was known as, universally, for a millennia and more.

[sndbay]

I understand that Peter was the rock of THE Church
I am not seeing where THE Church IS Catholic and directly linked to Peter.

My opinion would be Christ is the Rock..

1 Corinthains 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

[N0help4u]

The Bible does say Peter is the Rock of the Church but does it really specify A church IF it is even meant as a denomination. I lose the connection there.

[sndbay]

The Catholic Church teaches that Peter is the Rock... And it was brought forth out of the following verses. The18 verse says upon this rock, and the church takes this as saying Peter is the rock. In my opinion this is false... Scripture states that Christ is the Rock..

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Matthew 16:14 And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

[N0help4u]

Yeah

[sndbay]

The Bible does say Peter is the Rock of the Church but does it really specify A church IF it is even meant as a denomination. I lose the connection there.

I would have to know where in scripture anyone says directly that Peter is the rock?

[sndbay]

I also would like to know if so much importance is placed on this reading in Peter, then why don't be continue where Jesus rebukes Peter and says get behind me satan..

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day
Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee
Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mathew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

[sndbay]

Point of Fact: 2 Timothy 2:15: "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."