[massplumber2008]

MILO... last time here...

Are you telling me that your GC, architect and customers tell you to short the rough in on your toilets..?

Is this a discussion you have had with any of them..?

Let me see... GC says... MILO... forget the 12" rough in speced for this toilet...I want it closer than engineered principles suggest..?? That 1" space the spec. sheet calls for is wrong...

Is that the conversation you had with your contractors... please!

Try not to be a smarta** OK Milo... cause I have no trouble PUBLICLY ADMITTING you are way off here... and you are being unprofessional...

Do you pout like this in the field when you don't get your way??

[Milo Dolezal]

MILO...last time here...

Are you telling me that your GC, architect and customers tell you to short the rough in on your toilets..??

Is this a discussion you have had with any of them...??

Let me see....GC says...MILO...forget the 12" rough in speced for this toilet...I want it closer than engineered principles suggest..?? That 1" space the spec. sheet calls for is wrong...

Is that the conversation you had with your contractors....please!!

Try not to be a smarta** OK Milo...cause I have no trouble PUBLICLY ADMITTING you are way off here...and you are being unprofessional.....

Do you pout like this in the field when you don't get your way??

Not exactly, massplumber2008: What we engage in is called "dialog". I don't know if you noticed, but that's exactly what I am trying to establish here. ( No need to write in bold letters... ) In any case, my Architect , GC, and / or my client tell me to make sure that toilet tank sits flush with the wall. It is not "my" call. They will accept nothing less...

[massplumber2008]

MILO...

Ridiculous to suggest that your CLIENTS want your toilet to sit FLUSH with the wall! Why have you got a license again..

And so you are clear, I always write in bold and in color occasionally (check any of my posts to anyone)... offsets and makes clear the points I want to make clear... like now... Nonsense!

You continue to try to mislead here... fact is that you still have not acknowledged that you measured from the front of the level with baseboard behind it and tried to convince everyone here that a 12" rough in is actually 10.25"... and you were wrong... haven't heard anything about that all of a sudden. FACT IS THAT YOU CAN SEE THE 10.25 MEASURE ON THE TAPE... AND LEVEL AND BASEBOARD ARE TIGHT... SO WHAT IS THE MEASURE... WHAT MORE CAN YOU SHOW US?

Further, you almost convinced Natalie that her plumber messed up when in fact he is only plumbing according to national standards and was DEAD ON SPEC.

Your opinion is one thing... but continuing to argue that the entire plumbing industry is wrong with respect to specification sheets and then that they could be so far off that YOU discovered that all toilets need to be roughed in at 10.25" from now on... c'mon Milo??


.

[iamgrowler]

I am sorry to publicly admit to you - but yes, as a plumber, I DO have to listen to my General Contractor, Architect, City Inspectors - and most importantly - to my customers. My willingness to listen and do what ever entire team suggests has never failed me. Unlike you, I am NOT allowed to do what ever I want to do. It is not my call. Every project is a team effort with one thing in mind: satisfactory completion of the project.

Y'know, I'm trying really hard to understand where you're coming from, Milo.

Really, I am.

You say it isn't your call -- Well, if you are the one offering the warranty on your work, then yes, it *IS* your call.

Rigidly following manufacturer specs gives you something to point back to if something changes between the time you roughed things in and set the fixture.

Architects, H/O's, Designers and GC's can and do arbitrarily change things after rough-in.

The H/O might find a little more money in their budget and decide to put wainscotting or tile on the back wall -- Or if you accounted for tile or wainscotting in your rough-in, you might arrive on trim-out day to discover that the tile or wainscotting has morphed into slab granite or marble.

What if the Designer, H/O or Architect decides to change to a TOTO, Kohler or Sterling one piece, all of them WC's that will not mount on anything less than a 12" rough-in?

Seriously -- If you are the owner of the company, then the only thing between you and being on the winning side of a lawsuit is strict adherence to standard industry practices and manufacturer specifications.

[speedball1]

OK Guys! Enough!!
I think we can all agree that different areas have different codes and practices. You may run water over head in the attic and drop down while we don't think it's the best way to pipe a dwelling, (We pipe under the slab.)
You may be forced to follow manufactures directions to center the closet bend 12" off a finished wall, while in my area we feel that 12 5/8ths. off the rough in string leaves us with too much space between tank and wall so we rough 12" off the string. SO WHAT?? I'm going to get sued for 5/8ths of a inch? Don't be ridiculous! Remember the hassle growler and I had about DW air gaps? Growler thought he was dead right because his code mandated a counter top air gap. I thought I was dead right becase a mechanical air gap can fail and a high loop can't, plus I had all these complaints about counter top air gaps clogging up and pumping the discharge all over the counter and not a one about a high loop air gap. We both thought we were correct and nobody won. Isn't that where we are now? The asker has been answered and here we still are. We're all experienced plumbers here. No one disputes that. But the disagreement between growler and myself didn't put the best face of the Plumbing Page forward and this discussion doesn't either. Growler and I agreed to disagree and let it drop. And so should you. Bottom line? It doesn't play well for our expertise when our plumbing experts take up space taking shots at one another. Every one of us is a experienced tradesman. Shouldn't we start acting like one? Between us we have so much to offer. Let's get back to the business of answering questions.. Regards to all, Tom

[Milo Dolezal]

Speedball1: Thank you

[massplumber2008]

Yeah thanks Tom... now Milo can just drop this like he should have in the first place!

Mark

[ballengerb1]

Amen!

[speedball1]

Every body!! Huggs and kisses all around!!

[ballengerb1]

Tom, you're 80 and I'm 60, could we just shake on it and have a cold one? Pleasssse

[curlyqtoo]

What ever happened to Natalie? Looks like Natalie never responded with the result. I have a similar situation. Framing and rough-in plumbing is done. I would like to install a TOTO Nexus CST794SF in our basement bath. Installation instructions say that we need a 12" rough in from back wall. We have 13 3/4 from the back wall and 18 on center from the side wall. If I purchase this toilet, will it fit properly. Will I need to order an extra part for a 14" rough in? I don't want to order something that I will need to return. Help...

[Milo Dolezal]

Most toilets are installed on 12" rough. If you have 13 3/4" rough than you will have space between tank and wall. You may check with TOTO if they sell this particular model of toilet in 14" rough in. If positive - and you don't like space behind toilet tank - than get 14" rough toilet.

[vinc12224]

The toilet must b a 10" rough toilet

[speedball1]

Vince, Ya got to quit answering old dead threads. Cheer, Tom

[Fr_Chuck]

Closed, this is a two year old thread, does no one ever look at dates