[linnealand]

We picked a male English Cocker Spaniel out of a litter as soon as he was born because we did not want a dog with a docked tail, and the rest of the puppies were going to lose theirs. We have visited at least once a week since then. The father is a continental champion, and the mother is also very sweet and beautiful. Yesterday our puppy turned 32 days old. We have become concerned about a couple of issues regarding his eyes, but we are not sure if we are picking up on some real potential problems or if we are just way overly concerned as a new puppy-mom-and-dad-to-be. First, the membrane (third eyelid?) in the inner corners of his eyes is visible, more on him than in other puppies, and it might be somewhat more pronounced in the left eye than in the right. It might cover up to 20% when it is most visible. The tissue looks very healthy, but we want to know if this is something that he will grow out of, or if this is an aesthetic issue, or if this will make him prone to cherry eye in the future. The second observation is that we often see the whites of his eyes from the inside corners, which makes us concerned because it doesn't look like the other puppies have the same problem. Is it something or is it nothing? I don't know how to put it, but is it like being the opposite of cross-eyed? Sometimes his eyes look perfect. The breeder has told us that the parents and grandparents have been genetically tested, but we don't remember what that covers. Thank you so much for your help!

[froggy7]

I'm not sure from the eye description, but is the pup possibly giving you "whale-eye" looks? That's a sign of a very stressed dog, if it is. Here's some pictures:
Dog Body Language Diagrams

If the whites that you are seeing look like the ones in those photos, you may have picked a difficult pup. It's not hopeless, but you will need to learn about dog behavior to get that pup well-mannered.

[wildandblue]

All the research I did indicates to me the pup is sick. Sit down, friend, because this will not be easy to hear. The mother was apparently lacking in vitamin A during pregnancy and the pups have a birth defect because of it. The eye conditions are called Xerophthalmia and Exophthalmia but what is really going on is this: The pup's brain and spinal cord are normal size, but the bones they are inside of have not developed normally and are too small. Leading to increased pressure on the brain and spine. The mother should have had prenatal vitamins or perhaps she has some underlying medical condition that caused this. All my references seem to suggest that this can't be fixed, it is permanent damage and is a very painful condition. I can tell you have already formed a bond with this the dog you hope to take home but you are entitled to a healthy dog from this breeder so if you've made a deposit you could ask for a refund. I suspect they have had this problem before which is why they went to great length to tell you their dog has no birth defects in it's pedigree. It is more of a problem with poor management and nutrition of the mother. Perhaps she has had too many litters or too close together.I am praying for everyone involved.

[bushg]

Ask if they can give you a vets clean bill of health for it or ask if you can take it to a vet yourself. I would also ask in writing exactly what test were performed on the mom and dad. That way yoou can supply the info to your vet.

[carolbcac]

I agree that this should be checked by a vet. It may be something serious, or could be as simple as more droopy-than-normal eyelids that keep the eyes irritated due to dryness. Also the eye muscles may be less developed in this pup that cause it to be "wall-eyed" (there is a medical term for it, but I can't think of it for the life of me) as opposed to cross-eyed.
If you can see a difference in this pup and the rest of the litter it probably is significant enough to have it checked.

[linnealand]

Thanks to each of you for attempting to answer our questions. We have been reviewing the videotape that we have taken during our time with him, and it looks like we have just been overly concerned about nothing. His eyes are normal. Regarding the third eyelid, our friend told us that her dog had the same thing when he was little, and he outgrew it. Her dog's eyes are perfect - we've seen them many times. We're going to visit the puppy again this week, and then we'll see what the situation is. I have a lot of faith in our breeder. She is extremely accomplished, and I don't think that she'd risk her reputation with us. We'll find out the last time the pup saw the vet - the vet goes to her house - and if necessary, we'll have the pup visit a dog ophthalmologist. Keep in mind that he's only 32 days old - I think that he still has a lot of growing to do.

By the way, he is as healthy looking as can possibly be. He is very, very sweet, happy and playful. Everything is new still, so I might be inclined to believe that this might be deemed "stress," but in a mild and positive way.

wildandblue, while I very much appreciate your efforts, I think you ran off the road with the idea. I looked up the diseases you listed and looked at images of those eye diseases, and they have nothing to do with what I mentioned. Our breeder never accepts any money until the final purchase. If there is a problem, we will pick another puppy or wait for another litter. Still, I really don't think we'll need to.

[carolbcac]

I think you have found that most elusive of species--a responsible breeder! It sounds like she knows the potential problems in the breed and is being proactive. I'm glad his eyes are looking normal. Sounds like you have a healthy, happy puppy heading your way.

[linnealand]

Let's hope so! This puppy is really going to be like our baby, and we can't wait to expand the family with him. We're going to try to go back to see him today, and I hope everything is going the way that it should! It's nerve wracking!

The story about our breeder is this: her family has been breeding these cockers for 40 years. I think they have the most beautiful cockers I've ever seen, hands down. The breeder travels around the world winning show after show after show.

All of the cockers - and there are a lot of them - are extremely sweet and friendly. I haven't seen a crumb of aggression or anything else we wouldn't want in a single one of the dogs. We've been able to see the pup's mom, dad, uncles, aunts, grandparents, great-grandparents, cousins, friends, and on and on.

There is something that bothers me, though. Our breeder is so busy grooming and prepping, traveling and having clients arrive, that I feel like she doesn't dedicate nearly enough time to proactively telling us what's gone on with the puppies since the last time we saw them (we usually go once a week). If we ask her a question directly, she'll answer it, but sometimes she's so busy talking on the phone to clients or other dog-related people that we feel like we're really on the sidelines.

I suppose we'll have to stand a little taller to make ourselves heard. Also, with all of these dogs - I'm guessing there must be around 60 adults, plus a few litters at different stages going at the same time, that I can't see how she could possibly have enough time to dedicate to each of the puppies.

The thing is, though, that her adult dogs are obviously well socialized, so she must be doing something really right. And our tiny little puppy, although still very young, appears to be a dream when it comes to temperament, so I feel like he's going to become a truly great family dog.

We had the cash in hand the first time we went to visit - the mother dog was still pregnant with the litter when we arrived, and she gave birth to the first of the puppies before we left - but the breeder told us that she never accepts a penny until the puppy is ready to go home with us at two months. All of our pup's relatives have had genetic testing to clear them for healthy breeding. But I still wish that we didn't feel like we were getting in the way of the breeder's hectic lifestyle.

What do all of you think?

[froggy7]

I think I would be asking questions about how she socializes the pups. You're right.. with that many dogs, she can't be devoting time to all of them. So, does she have kennel staff? Puppy minders? The thing I would be concerned about is that you are seeing the dogs that she kept, and she is obviously going to spend more time with the dogs that she is going to be keeping. If she's got ten free minutes, and 5 puppies, one of whom she is planning on showing and 4 of whom she's not, it's natural to spend that time on the one that is going to be shown to make sure that it will perform well. You need to find out who is going to be spending time with the other four pups.

[linnealand]

Thanks for your input! Yes, froggy, you're right in asking those questions.

Here is the big update. We went to visit our puppy today, and everything went really well.

For starters, it's clear that the puppy's eyes are perfectly okay. They face in the right direction. I think they were googly the last time because he was exhausted and he's still a tiny pup. The third eyelid is in fact evident in both eyes, but we've been told that it is obvious because it is sort of white/opaque/transparent now, and that it turns brown - like the cockers' eye color - as the pup grows, and then it becomes unnoticeable. does anyone know anything about this?

We were smarter in our approach to the breeder today because we chose a time to visit when we knew there would be less commotion - unlike on a Saturday afternoon when everyone visits - so we got to spend a lot more time with the breeder. I followed her around and asked the questions I wanted to ask. I feel really comfortable with her answers.

Her site says that she has produced dozens of champions. I believe it. But there's still the fact that I can't imagine there is enough time in the day to cuddle every single one of the puppies and each of the dogs in the way I'd like best. But I think I know how she works it. When she's grooming the dogs - she spends a lot of her time grooming - she lets different litters out and they play around her feet and with the people that visit throughout the day.
Also, her mom helps her full-time, and there's a girl that works there at least part-time.

Well, I feel really, really happy about the puppy, and I have to believe that the breeder, who has been in the business since she was born - her parents started breeding these dogs years and years ago - takes breeding very seriously. I really like her, too, and I'm trusting her professional knowledge.

I can't wait for this pup to come home with us! Thank you all so much for attempting to solve my questions. As you all know, when it comes to puppy stuff, our hearts are totally on our sleeves.

[carolbcac]

Yes, I certainly think 60 dogs would be impossible to properly socialize, let alone groom and show. If she doesn't have a lot of help it would take all day just to clean and feed. (I have 10 rescue dogs plus two cats and they run me and my husband ragged)
I am always wary of breeders(--too much time spent in shelters and chasing strays--)they have to really prove themselves responsible.
Her program sounds well-run since she produces not only good conformation dogs but also friendly and well socialized ones. Yet I have an issue with her having "several litters" on the premesis. To me, a good breeder (besides being a contradiction in terms), raises no more than one or two litters a year. She evidently has a lot of good dogs, but I would think that would mean breeding only the best of the best.
We know that one of those pups is going to a good, loving home. Can't help wondering how many other homes like yours are available.

[linnealand]

Yes, I think there might be as many as 4 or 5 litters going at the same time at different stages. I think she does spend her whole day feeding, cleaning and grooming the dogs, from very early in the morning until at least 8 at night. Funny coincidence that you should make that statement about the number of litters born per year, carol, because the last time we saw the breeder she talked about that. She brought up a discussion that a fellow breeder started with her at some meeting, wherein the woman told her that she couldn't possibly be doing as good of a job with her dogs as the woman herself, as the second woman only puts out one or two litters a year. This slightly enraged my breeder, who argued that the other woman couldn't possibly be doing as good a job since she has another career and doesn't do genetic testing and so on, while my breeder is dedicated to her dogs completely full-time, and she's half-obsessive-compulsive about their health and care. I don't know what the right answer to that is, but I'm guessing it might be somewhere in the middle. To tell you the truth, I don't know enough about it to make a proper opinion of it. As for our breeder, all of the puppies I have seen have come from stunning parentage, and I know that our pup's parents are simply too good for words. They're both absolutely beautiful and sweet to the bone. The valid concern is with the time she can give to each of them, but as an extra precaution we're trying to adjust that by our play visits. We play with the whole litter, with some extra cuddles and private play naturally devoted to our pup. These are expensive doggies, too, so I think that - other than a few especially spoiled people who must be gathering in the mix (teehee) - the people who take them home will be treating them like the little treasures they are. But every dog deserves a good home, no matter what the sticker price or the lineage. I'll bet you're a terrific doggie mom! You certainly seem to care deeply, and there's no limit to where that takes you. You should also be so, so proud of keeping rescue dogs... but I'll bet you already knew that. :)